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Robertino
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Robertino
@theroberm
Engineer | Tech Founder | PM @IOGroup | rober-m @ GitHub | Opinions are my own.
🇦🇷/🇵🇹 Katılım Mayıs 2020
713 Takip Edilen2.3K Takipçiler
@theroberm , When the “Developer Portal” is funded…. i’m first in line for “DP intern”
I’ll be the crash test dummy to test the UI/UX of the portal…. for a very low fee ofcorse. 😂🫶🏽
Jokes aside, I been preaching that cardano needed the equivalent to a “library of congress” but for all cardano stuff so developers and newcomers as a whole have a far BETTER experience.
Sending +Vibes your way amigo.
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Todavía no estás siguiendo Robertino (@theroberm)? GRAN GRAN GRAN valor de la comunidad Cardano que está impulsando está propuesta para mejorar la experiencia de desarrollador.
Desde este humilde espacio damos TODO nuestro apoyo a Rober!!! 💪👍🙏
Robertino@theroberm
Without developers, we don't have products and services. However, we can't seem to increase our numbers! Are we going to do something about it? Here's my proposal to accelerate onboarding and support existing devs with the highest ROI I could think of: momentum.cardano.iog.io/proposals/deve…
Español
@CardanoenCast 🙌😄 Muchísimas gracias!! 🙇♂️ Estoy a su servicio! 💪
Español
Robertino retweetledi
There are a thousand things to do at any given time. If we prioritize all of them, we prioritize none. Each team (IO or otherwise) has its own objectives, products, and roadmaps that are valuable to Cardano as well. My issue is that, up until now, DevX has been treated as a side effect of other tooling. No one worked on DevX as the end goal.
I'm stepping up and saying that the overall DevX of Cardano should be treated as the objective, a priority, not a side effect. And making the portal a great resource should be part of that priority.
To answer your question, this is what I think we should do to make the Dev Portal the clear single source of truth: github.com/cardano-founda…
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Respectfully, the core issue isn't whether the proposal says it will contribute to developers.cardano.org - it's that this has been the obvious path for years, yet fragmentation persists largely because of how IOG teams have published
You also say - " "just contribute" when each team (from every company in the community, not just IO) has its own priorities."
But here's the thing -IOG and CF are here to work on Cardano - there should be NO other priority!
Their job is to make the ecosystem succeed and that includes prioritizing the neutral, open, community governed hub over spinning up yet more scattered resources.
The ₳3.6M ask still feels extremely heavy. What do you see as the biggest blocker to just making the Developer Portal the clear single source of truth with full IOG backing?
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I'll be assessing this proposal next.
First question, what is wrong with the following documentation? @theroberm
I think there is false narrative that there isn't enough documentation, it is very easy to find - even for non-developers
github.com/cardano-founda…
Input Output Group@IOGroup
Building on Cardano shouldn’t be hard. Led by Robertino Martinez (@theroberm), this proposal tackles what matters most: → Better SDKs → Clearer docs → Faster path from idea → live DApp With improved tooling, we’re shortening the path to first DApp and converting builder interest into shipped products. ‘Once you understand Cardano, it’s the best platform to build on. Our job is to make that happen faster.’ Watch the proposal 👇
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Robertino retweetledi
Thank you for the questions! 😃 Here are my answers:
The Developer Portal (the docs you linked) is very bad at onboarding new developers. This is not only my opinion, it's a well-known issue that the team in charge also wants to address (see github.com/cardano-founda… and related issues). The good thing is that we've been meeting with them, the Intesect DevX working group, and community members who interact with developers new to Cardano for months, and we all agree that that is the best resource we have so far, and that the best course of action is to improve it instead of creating a new one. So, that's what we proposed. We'll be working with them to fix all these issues and make the Developer Portal an amazing resource for newcomers! 💪
Regarding "there is NO fragmentation," the results of the latest Cardano Developer Survey, which represents the opinions of 109 Cardano developers, say otherwise: cardano-foundation.github.io/state-of-the-d… (questions 12 and 28, for example). On top of that, over the years, I have trained hundreds of developers to adopt Cardano, and they have always struggled with fragmented, out-of-date, and incomplete documentation.
I understand that once you know how to navigate Cardano's development landscape, it's fine. But the sad truth is that we need more devs, and they don't put up with our poor devx if the ecosystem next door is way easier to use.
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I respectfully disagree with some implications here:
You're asking to contribute to developers.cardano.org, and that's exactly what the proposal says we'll do. So, I don't understand what the issue is there.
The 3.6M ADA covers the whole proposal, including libraries, tooling, and much more than just this item.
We're already pushing our teams to contribute there, and we're in talks with CF and others to determine what to do with docs.cardano.org. My take is that we should shut it down and redirect everything to developers.cardano.org. Others have other opinions. You're welcome to join the meetings; they're public.
We have been discussing this for months with many people in the community, including on GitHub issues, in public meetings, etc. It's not as easy as to say "just contribute" when each team (from every company in the community, not just IO) has its own priorities, and contributing to the portal is nowhere near the top. You can ask anyone who works at the portal.
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Onboarding and dev experience absolutely matter - no disagreement there. But if the main sources of scattered/outdated info are coming from one org’s uncoordinated output, the fastest way to improve is better internal coordination + routing everything toward the one neutral, community open hub.
We already have the platform and the moderation rules. We mostly just need the will to consolidate instead of duplicating.
I'd argue the fragmentation is mostly self-inflicted by IOG's own publishing habits. They keep docs on docs.cardano.org (under-maintained), spin up stalled Blueprint sections (again not anyone's fault but it's due to time that is available to Sebastien), then publish fresh network specs as separate PDFs on Intersect subdomains instead of finishing the agnostic version.
Even when an IOG team lead does the right thing and puts the new Tracer docs into the CF Developer Portal, other teams keep creating new locations. THAT is the fragmentation.
The good news? It’s fixable in a pretty straightforward way without needing a big new parallel effort - Double down on the existing, open, neutral developers.cardano.org (which is already GitHub-based, moderated for neutrality, and actively maintained by CF).
Push more IOG teams to contribute there by default instead of new subdomains/PDFs
So do we need to spend ₳3.6 million $ADA to solve this problem ? or can IOG simply start practicing proper organizing of documentation?
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@ADAFrog_Pool @NaVi_GaT0R Not sure if I understand. We aligned our strategies and workstreams to pull together in the same direction. We won't be paying anything to intersect, and we have no say in how Intersect handles its people or community contributors
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@theroberm @NaVi_GaT0R kinda ballsy to drop this proposal, referencing the work at intersect, without intent to compensate community contributors
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@NaVi_GaT0R @adatainment @ch1bo_ Yes! Ideally, everything should be in the Developer Portal! 🎉 That's what I want too!
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@theroberm @adatainment @ch1bo_ Well even Michael Karg (from IOG) and the Tracer documention is fully convinced such things should end up in the developer portal and as such he published all the tracer doc there.
#cardano-tracer" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">developers.cardano.org/docs/get-start…
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I'd argue that "within the community" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Most developers go straight to Discord/GitHub to ask basic questions that should be documented. Plus, we have survivorship bias. We can't hear the opinions that dropped out.
Agree that the learning curve is mostly to do with software, that's why most of the work of the proposal is on improving software devx. Actually, the original plan was almost entirely about software, but in the end, I couldn't deny that we needed better docs for onboarding new devs.
Onboarding is THE topic of the proposal. The whole point is to reduce onboarding costs for new builders/companies. We need to retain our current talent, but with the few we already are here, we have no chance of competing with other ecosystems.
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Robertino@theroberm
Thank you for the questions! 😃 Here are my answers: The Developer Portal (the docs you linked) is very bad at onboarding new developers. This is not only my opinion, it's a well-known issue that the team in charge also wants to address (see github.com/cardano-founda… and related issues). The good thing is that we've been meeting with them, the Intesect DevX working group, and community members who interact with developers new to Cardano for months, and we all agree that that is the best resource we have so far, and that the best course of action is to improve it instead of creating a new one. So, that's what we proposed. We'll be working with them to fix all these issues and make the Developer Portal an amazing resource for newcomers! 💪 Regarding "there is NO fragmentation," the results of the latest Cardano Developer Survey, which represents the opinions of 109 Cardano developers, say otherwise: cardano-foundation.github.io/state-of-the-d… (questions 12 and 28, for example). On top of that, over the years, I have trained hundreds of developers to adopt Cardano, and they have always struggled with fragmented, out-of-date, and incomplete documentation. I understand that once you know how to navigate Cardano's development landscape, it's fine. But the sad truth is that we need more devs, and they don't put up with our poor devx if the ecosystem next door is way easier to use.
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@adatainment @ch1bo_ The documentation that is fragmented is on IOG side not for Cardano.
So, it's easy to say it's fragmented when you looking at your own stuff in a fragmented way.
CF has already created a non-fragmented documentation layer for developers
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@NaVi_GaT0R @ch1bo_ The Cardano Blueprint project is a very valuable resource, but it is not meant to be used (nor would it be effective) to onboard DApp/protocol developers. And confusing docs.cardano.org with developers.cardano.org should hint to you that there's something wrong here.
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More documentation
Good initiatives like the so called Cardano blueprint project which is led by @ch1bo_ - Leios lead
cardano-scaling.github.io/cardano-bluepr…
Btw the link for the initial Github link I posted is here
docs.cardano.org
These didn't take long to find
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That's a great question! We're raising it because we believe it's something crucial that needs to be solved as soon as possible, and we're ready to face the challenge. This doesn't mean that we're alone in this. We fine-tuned this proposal for months based on conversations with Intersect DevX working group, the people from CF in charge with the Developer Portal, and tons of builders from the community.
We won't work alone either, we'll collaborate with everyone to make these valuable community resources! 💪😄
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@theroberm Why IOG is raising this issue? claude.ai/share/4cc6e4ae…
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Without developers, we don't have products and services. However, we can't seem to increase our numbers! Are we going to do something about it?
Here's my proposal to accelerate onboarding and support existing devs with the highest ROI I could think of:
momentum.cardano.iog.io/proposals/deve…
English
@IOGroup @theroberm Learn from competitors.
Wen "Cardano Developer Platform" like this one: solana.com/solutions/sdp
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Robertino retweetledi
Building on Cardano shouldn’t be hard.
Led by Robertino Martinez (@theroberm), this proposal tackles what matters most:
→ Better SDKs
→ Clearer docs
→ Faster path from idea → live DApp
With improved tooling, we’re shortening the path to first DApp and converting builder interest into shipped products.
‘Once you understand Cardano, it’s the best platform to build on. Our job is to make that happen faster.’
Watch the proposal 👇
English
This was a great space! Thank you everyone who joined and especially @ch1bo_, @theroberm and @gpw5150 for the deeper dive into respective IO proposals.
x.com/i/spaces/1AKEm…
Millville, MA 🇺🇸 English