CopperViolette

Just know that the statements made here, especially "might be a civilization," are ones I'll be explaining in future posts and articles. There's a lot to unpack with the Old Copper Complex, and it wouldn't be possible without academics (geneticists, anthropologists, archaeologists, etc.) who've done great work.

@CopperViolette @Maqitzara ah...I understand now, and I agree...

Me when i have to justify my findings on specific cultures where I clearly have built a robust multidisciplinary approach but the counterargument is some outdated scholar who actually has credentials.

Meant to show an issue some independent researchers and avocational groups are having with some academics. Some defend older theories with outdated data, don't consider the bigger picture (in my case, especially), don't use geospatial information systems (GIS), don't look to oral traditions, or all these. A lot of info once locked within universities is now free. Sure, it takes time to research and to make sure it's all logical (as much as possible with available data), but that doesn't mean it lacks quality. I've seen multiple people produce university and PhD-quality content without a single degree. Maqzara and Paxtysk are only two examples. It's disappointing to have your work or that of your colleagues brushed aside as insignificant because there's no university degree. I've noticed it in some interactions I've had with academics. It's like a tension or hesitation. Even if you prove, multiple times, that you understand the topic, not having the degree makes them hesitant; some won't even listen. And I appreciate the work academics do! The goofy dog is my reaction to all this.

@CopperViolette @Maqitzara I do not understand the posted statements and about the dog ?

Are the books next? What about my clay models based on their artifacts? The books have images of artifacts and burials (photos and sketches). They're incredibly valuable resources for anyone studying the Maritime Archaic. As a Mainer and Maritime Archaic researcher, this hits close to home, unfortunately. I appreciate Bruce Bourque and you speaking out about this.

And, from University of Maine, plaster casts of artifacts are being incorrectly defined as funerary objects, and these casts -- made by archaeologists -- will be 'repatriated' and, likely, destroyed! #NAGPRA federalregister.gov/d/2026-05962/p…

@eweissunburied First the Nevin site, now these... The Maritime Archaic still has mysteries. Genetics, interactions with neighboring groups, artifact numbers, and extent. How can people study these ancient cultures without data?

@MoundLore Wisconsin's got all those effigy mound groups. I'd take a trip there (might see some Old Copper items, too, if you stop at a museum).

I have three days to blow on mounds next month. Having a hell of a time deciding direction. Wisconsin Illinois/Missouri Tennessee

Old Copper Complex (ca. 8000-1000 B.C.E.) | Artifact Collection #4

Old Copper Complex mining pollution data from sites around Lake Superior. David Pompeani (the lead author of the study) and I have talked about this, and we both agree it strongly suggests we've all underestimated the scale of those ancient metalworkers. He's compared the emissions to what you'd expect for Rome or ancient China. This is one reason among several why I'm viewing them as complex hunter-gatherer-fishers. Source is Pompeani et al., "ON THE TIMING OF THE OLD COPPER COMPLEX IN NORTH AMERICA: A COMPARISON OF RADIOCARBON DATES FROM DIFFERENT ARCHAEOLOGICAL CONTEXTS," 2021

An Ojibwe man spearfishing in Minnesota, 1908. Colorized photograph from Alone with the Past: The Life and Photographic Art of Roland W. Reed, 2012.

Old Copper Complex (ca. 8000-1000 B.C.E.) | Artifact Collection #3

Some diagnostic Old Copper Complex (OCC) artifacts from sites around the Great Lakes. These items are arranged by culture, with OCC and Glacial Kame associated with many. Both were contemporary between 4000-1000 B.C.E. Glacial Kame is known for copper use (just like the OCC), but with more emphasis on axes, beads, marine and freshwater shells (whole shells, beads, pendants, gorgets), and burials in flexed positions covered in red ochre or rarely yellow ochre. They're linked with the Shell Mound Archaic (SMA) from Kentucky, Tennessee, and northern Alabama. Glacial Kame mainly originates from interactions between the OCC and the SMA during the Middle Archaic (ca. 6000-3000 B.C.E.), with most of their sites south of the Great Lakes, especially in Ohio. The diagram's source is Don Spohn's Prehistoric Copper Artifact Journal, Vol. 8, No. 1, 2012

Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot

The motifs of the N'Kheïla stelae can be observed in the Imaoun(Oued Draa,southern Morocco) As well as metal axes from the European influence

Old Copper Complex (ca. 8000-1000 B.C.E.) | Artifact Collection #2

Old Copper Complex (ca. 8000-1000 B.C.E.) | Artifact Collection #1

You're welcome. Here are some more images for your files. The first shows a Persian Bronze Age arrowhead/spearhead. Similar OCC items are known, but notice the patina. Different than copper, and no worm tracks. Smelted items won't have worm tracks. Some have tried passing these on as authentic OCC items, but don't be fooled. The second is an infamous "collection" of "OCC artifacts." They look real to people unfamilar with patinas and ancient copper items, but they're all fake. Reproductions made by a lady's son. They went on to claim authenticity, but later admitted that they're fake. Good for general education, but not for selling as authentic. The third image shows David Peterson (an avocational, OCC researcher, and metaldetectorist) examining an authentic OCC knife (21") found in Northern Ontario over 10 years ago. All those dark, squiggly lines are worm tracks.

@CopperViolette So kind of you...I will copy and save this to my files...thank you

Yes, the available info shows this. Over in Anatolia (Turkey), groups were making jewelry between 10,000-8000 B.C.E. and experimenting with copperworking (suggested from some sites). Around the Great Lakes, people were making simple spearheads, knapping tools, and knives between 8000-6000 B.C.E., long before Eurasia used copper for anything functional. The Clovis culture might've made some fluted copper points, but the only one known hasn't been examined since it was shown at an artifact show many years ago. We don't know where it is now.

@CopperViolette I have read, the Old Copper Culture in the western Great Lakes region reveals the oldest known use-mining, and hammer forging of copper in world history

These are not my items; only sharing what others have found. Collectors occasionally sell their items, typically for a lot (hundreds to over $10,000). LiveAuctioneers sometimes has OCC items, but know that patinas can be faked. There are ways to tell real copper artifacts from fake ones. Real OCC items usually have "worm tracks," which are dark, squiggly lines caused by errosion. Decay removes softer parts from harder parts (caused during hammering and annealing), leaving the squiggly lines. If you buy an OCC artifact, keep track of everything known about it and don't lose any documents.

@CopperViolette any for sale ?