Centurion Longinus

I'm not sure if I understand the question, it sort of got lost with the multiple reply under one post thing X has going on. I think it works better if you you hit reply to your own last post instead of positing multiples on my last post (if that makes sense). Who are we talking about now?

@SubprimeBort @UcheMaryOkoli Do you have a reasonable take that fixes that for them? I've always found it very puzzling.

Symbols don't bleed. The Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus. It is not a symbol. It is Jesus in His full form.

@Thundergod9010 @UcheMaryOkoli RCC is fine.

@SubprimeBort @UcheMaryOkoli While I will use shorthand like LDS and RCC and OCC when I'm up against the character limit, we've been scolded and told to stop calling ourselves the wrong names. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but Church of Jesus Christ is fine too. What do you prefer?

@Thundergod9010 @UcheMaryOkoli Never knew that. Yes I double checked definitely watered down and part of the mass ceremony.

@SubprimeBort @UcheMaryOkoli So the wine is watered down? Or are you unsure? It's kind of a Greek thing, but Jews were definitely watering down their wine when Jesus had the Last Supper. It was considered uncouth to drink wine that wasn't watered down.

@Thundergod9010 @UcheMaryOkoli Honestly I wouldn't take offense in your church, I don't see a reason why. If it happened inside any church in that graph connected to a Catholic church though I'd be mortified. Interesting, I'll definitely have to brush up on LDS when time permits.

@SubprimeBort @UcheMaryOkoli Yep and it sure does piss off other Christians when we take all of that and toss it in the garbage. In metaphysics, Catholic and Church of Jesus Christ differences maximize. In daily living, morals, and the need for lineal apostolic authority, we're more similar.

@Thundergod9010 @UcheMaryOkoli It's unleavened bread still. The current form is a practical development for distribution as modern day Matzah would probably not be feasible for the population density we have today.

@SubprimeBort @UcheMaryOkoli The thing that they use for communion. It's not Matzah like Jesus would have been eating. Is it designed to be similar? Hand a child matzah and they'll call that a cracker. But either way is fine. Does the RCC dilute down the wine like what Jesus would have used?

@Thundergod9010 @UcheMaryOkoli Interesting observation, the Biblical reference never registered in my head, but yes they do.

@Thundergod9010 @UcheMaryOkoli Yes still living the ordinary human life of a true man. However we have a double collapse of time, which sounds crazy... but remember we are essentially talking about a being that exists outside of time.

@SubprimeBort @UcheMaryOkoli So when Jesus is actually blessing the Matzah and properly diluted wine at the Last Supper/Passover, he was still mortal, wasn't he? Church of Jesus Christ just tosses the consubstantiation business entirely. This means we have no theological framework for understanding.

@Thundergod9010 @UcheMaryOkoli For discussion purposes, I take no offense. To me you're just talking about the accidents. Although technically it would be "bread and wine".

@SubprimeBort @UcheMaryOkoli For future reference, if "crackers and grape juice" is offensive, what do you suggest I say instead? I'm not buying into transubstantiation, so it creates limits on articulation saying whatever RCC prefers.

Oh and to answer your question no the blood does not become wine and the flesh does not become a cracker—this would infer that that bread and wine are a part of the hypostatic union — which is essentially consubstantiation (Luther) and not transubstantiation. The other layer I've realized is that it's also not the mortal body of Christ, it's the immortal, glorified Body of Christ. The implications for that indicate that the actual human heart tissue and actual type AB blood reported in Eucharistic miracles are STILL accidents and not the substance.

@SubprimeBort @UcheMaryOkoli It's one of those things that baffle the outsider. Clearly, Jesus wasn't made out of crackers and wine, and I think everyone agrees. This is where the outsider is going to smack into a logical brick wall. The video helps a lot. It does go down the "substance" rabbit hole tho.

@Thundergod9010 @UcheMaryOkoli Yeah I totally get that.

@SubprimeBort @UcheMaryOkoli As to buildings, RCC and OCC cathedrals are still undefeated, but thanks. Since we do not believe in transubstantiation, to us it's just leftover water and bread. We're not going to be disrespectful with leftovers, but throwing it away or down the sink doesn't bother us.

You're asking some deep questions my friend. The philosophical discussion about it references Aristotelian metaphysics distinguishing between substance and accidents. It's a dense topic and this is the shortest, friendliest presentation of it I've seen (although I'm happy to discus it at great length): youtu.be/BBZPv_ImH9w?si…

@SubprimeBort @UcheMaryOkoli My point was this: If it literally became blood and human flesh, why does it still taste look, taste, smell, feel and present in every possible way as crackers and wine? Or does blood become wine, and does flesh become a cracker something like a matza cracker?

@Thundergod9010 @UcheMaryOkoli Yes the gravity of "leftovers" didn't occur to me till I had a glimpse of how they do TLM mass. LDS, you guys got some beautiful churches ngl

@SubprimeBort @UcheMaryOkoli Being berated was fine. Amusing really. I'm certainly comprehending that believing in transubstantiation radically changes how you treat the leftovers. I said "crackers and grape juice" which to me is better than "crackers and wine." I'm LDS. It wasn't appreciated.

There's no distinction between Roman Catholic and Eastern Catholic, I can seamlessly hop over to either depending on geography. Eastern Orthodox Church though they will likely not allow me. x.com/Xtopher_Uzo/st… I'm sorry to hear you were berated. That's not a good way to do ecumenical dialogue. The plastic cups are in essence remembrance and while honorable when done with reverence and prayer—it is not the sacramental reality.

@SubprimeBort @UcheMaryOkoli Right. Meaning that you yourself are Roman Catholic and not Orthodox Catholic. I'd certainly be curious what they have to say. It's been a good learning experience about the Eucharist. Even got berated for "doing it wrong" and "plastic cups." Differences aside, just learning.

@Thundergod9010 @UcheMaryOkoli Interesting note on this is that the printing press production became full steam by the 16th century. Over a millennia of tradition was essentially stripped favoring bible alone and modernized interpretation sans apostolic succession.

That's a great question. Catholic is Catholic, just separated by region and in full communion. Eastern Orthodox is what I think you meant and I wasn't clear about this until recently either. The dotted lines are in imperfect communion. Their Eucharist is definitively seen valid by the Catholic Church, but Orthodox cannot universally define the other way around because authority in Orthodoxy is conciliar rather than centralized, questions like the status of non-Orthodox sacraments tend to remain theologically open or variably expressed.

Acts 15 is Acts 15:23–29—the letter says, ‘it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us… to lay on you no greater burden…’ and it’s sent to believers in multiple regions (Antioch, Syria, Cilicia). Even if the content isn’t new, that’s still a binding directive addressed beyond one congregation. If churches are fully autonomous, is that ruling binding outside Jerusalem—yes or no?

I agree Acts 15 isn’t adding new doctrine—that’s not my claim. The question is authority: the letter says, ‘it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us… to lay on you no greater burden,’ and it’s sent for observance across multiple churches. Please state the verse. Sorry, but "Catholics" are not known for their consistency when it comes to text. Who were leading this? The Apostles. Who were inspired? The Apostles. Who had been given authority? The Apostles. Who had authority with regard to doctrine? The Apostles. However, there are no more Apostles (cf. Acts 1:20-22). Once the faith was delivered (Jude 1:3; Galatians 1:9), there would no longer be a need for Apostles. Thus, we are left with elders to lead the individual congregations, as designated in the Scriptures quoted prior. Acts 15 shows a clear trend toward said structure. If churches are fully autonomous, how do you account for a binding ruling addressed beyond one congregation? Goodness. How many times do I have to write the same thing? You are so stuck on your man made tradition that you cannot even reason. The Letter contains nothing, as you admit, that was new. There was no new doctrine "to bind" anyone. Your claim is false on its face. And in Mt 16, Petros/petra is a name–noun pairing; grammatical form (including gender) doesn’t force two different referents—the sentence itself links them. It does. Your continued use of rhetorical word play does not change the fact that the reference in the Greek is to two different things: One is to Peter (Petros, Cephas) and the other is Christ's church. The context is clear if you bothered to include prior verses. But hey, you are "Catholic."

Catholics looking for verses that mention a pope.

@Catholic_bro Absolute Legend.

😂

I admitted defeat already. You win. Growth matters. Standing on your words matters. Becoming stronger matters. I agree with you. If I say it— I should back it. If I claim it— I should become it. No excuses. No retreat. That’s real strength. So imagine a world where everyone lives like that. No one folds. No one softens. No one says, “I was wrong.” Every word backed. Every position held. Every man unbreakable. At first— it looks like power. But nothing bends. Nothing adjusts. Nothing holds. Pressure doesn’t leave. It stacks. Word against word. Will against will. And no one can afford to give way. So it keeps building— until it doesn’t...

@SubprimeBort @GigaBasedDad u know what im gonna say dont u. so ur admitting defeat already? il give u time. there is no shame in being wrong. we all grow as people. that is what true strength and power is, growth. not even GOD can surpass that.

Yes.

@DLWF4 @GigaBasedDad No bedtime story for you. I will bookmark and tell you all about it in the morning, promise.

@SubprimeBort @GigaBasedDad im being serious here. just humor me. how impressive is it.

@Simultanagnosia @darwintojesus lol

@SubprimeBort @darwintojesus 🤣

The modern state of atheism.