Simulated outrage

@GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro The fact that there is a significant number of young kids who strongly identify with the opposite gender seems to point to something complex going on that deserves respect and understanding. This does not apply to people who discover this when they are say 16 or older imo.

@GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro I agree with all of that. Perhaps neither of us is regressive. I just don't think we necessarily need to define gender as sex and vice versa. People take comfort in their gender id and the connection between the two is tenuous enough that it may not be immutable.

This is an interesting argument from The Argument that the intensity of travel sports explains a lot of the backlash to trans female participation in women’s sports. Probably it’s a factor but having reported on it I think other factors were much more important.

@GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro You ignored my question. Answer that first. Is there no way to tell the difference between a boy or girl beyond primary sex traits, say at age 8. If there is, how?

@SimulatedO @SumErgoMonstro - that boys who have true femininity are actually girls. - this is somehow not at all oppressive or regressive or conservative

@GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro Also, to continue this argument, I need you to pick up your game a bit. You haven't started calling me names yet, but I do lose patience with an inability to engage honestly with what I am saying. It's good to challenge your assumptions in good faith.

@GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro You are a genius at straw manning! You argue on assumption instead of what's in front of you. I never said anything about pink or house work. This is all in your brain. Are you then arguing that if it weren't for the penis, no would be able to tell girls and boys apart at all?

@GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro Now you are using "literally" incorrectly. Can you be any more incorrigible?

@SimulatedO @SumErgoMonstro Literally you. x.com/sappholives83/…

@GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro Why would a 4 year old do that? Then continue that through to adulthood. You probably don’t have any kids. Believing trans is real means believing in true femininity as something that comes from the brain, usually associated with sex traits, but larger than mere genitalia.

@SimulatedO @SumErgoMonstro Femininity is culturally imposed from infancy on females. TG act feminine to imitate it.

@GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro Come on. You seem smarter than this. Trans girls are acting but girls are acting naturally? You shouldn’t pose such a simplistic point of view.

@SimulatedO @SumErgoMonstro Some people are better actors than others. So what?

@GeneNLeslie1 @maybe_ellen @SumErgoMonstro I do see the importance of this. You are deciding not to understand me. I just think all girls should be able to play and you want to exclude some. And certainly you understand that trans folks are in a worse cultural position than women?

@SimulatedO @maybe_ellen @SumErgoMonstro cultural corrective to these attitudes, I don’t know what to say to you.

@maybe_ellen @GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro Ok. Never thought of sports this way. But is irrelevant as this is a discussion about allowing all girls to play, not excluding some. Some have a more complex definition of gender and some don’t. I agree with all that only girls should play girls sports.

@SimulatedO @GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro Of course it exists to celebrate female achievement (aswell as just for fun). Otherwise we wouldn't compete on elite-level.

@GeneNLeslie1 @maybe_ellen @SumErgoMonstro You are being obtuse. Clearly I believe in women’s sports but it doesn’t exist to celebrate women. It exists because women like to play sports as much as men do. The whole line of thought strikes me as sexist.

@SimulatedO @maybe_ellen @SumErgoMonstro project.

@maybe_ellen @GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro Everytime I engage in this argument it’s not about sports but a deep belief that trans people don’t really exist. I think they do from knowing a few. Trans girls are girls. If you don’t get that, then this is a pointless argument.

@SimulatedO @GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro I'm not talking about gender and playing music. I'm talking about sex and physical sport. Male people can be celebrated in male sports, if they're good enough.

@maybe_ellen @GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro This is all strange. What happens in co-ed sports? Or a science fair. Or band competition. I really don’t know what celebrating a gender has to do with this.

@SimulatedO @GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro All competitive sports celebrate winning. A boy celebrated for winning over a girl is not celebrated for female achievement, but for male achievement.

@CanadaKlr @SumErgoMonstro @asymmetricinfo In a free liberal society I prefer to not ban people from activities. It’s doubly true for kids.

@SimulatedO @SumErgoMonstro @asymmetricinfo Or just simply ban XY.

@SumErgoMonstro @GeneNLeslie1 The ability of Trans girls to engage in feminine behavior is a clearly demonstrated fact. Homosexuals cannot engage in sexual behavior for its biological purpose of reproduction.

@SimulatedO @GeneNLeslie1 The ability of people to engage in sexual behavior with people of the same sex is a clearly demonstrated fact. The ability of a man to be a woman is not.

@maybe_ellen @GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro That’s an odd view of sports since there is always a loser. We celebrating female failure too. Youth sports in my opinion is to promote exercise, fitness, teamwork, and intelligent play. Unless that’s the achievement you mean. Works for everyone.

@SimulatedO @GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro Female sport is to celebrate female achievement. Not mediocre males.

@CanadaKlr @SumErgoMonstro @asymmetricinfo Then maybe they should. That’s the evolution that might be in order. It seems reasonable especially starting at a certain age.

@SumErgoMonstro @SimulatedO @asymmetricinfo Not all States in high school or leagues require any form of HRT or T suppression. In Canada we don't always. Amatuer leagues where they do have rules, generally don't test. This drives anger, disgust and hate. But they don't get it.

@GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro Error or variation. Homosexuals were always viewed as an error until they weren’t.

@SimulatedO @SumErgoMonstro discomfort with their bodies - they are, in essence, misperceiving their bodies. There is insufficient evidence that medical transition is the best form of treatment for this, particularly in light of the increased cardiac and other health risks posed by CSH. Particularly there

@SumErgoMonstro @GeneNLeslie1 The brain is biological and humans perceive and act in the real world through beliefs. Yours is the same dumb argument people made for criminalizing homosexuality and denying gay marriage. We now know that was wrong. We should be careful here too.

@SimulatedO @GeneNLeslie1 The beliefs of those "authentic trans people" are irrelevant. Your beliefs and my beliefs about their beliefs are irrelevant. The biological realities are what matter. We segregate certain events by sex because of those realities.

@GeneNLeslie1 @SumErgoMonstro You just need more practice. And to talk to some trans people. If you haven’t talked to any then you are working in a low information environment and probably not qualified to argue this anywhere but twitter, where low info analysis reigns supreme!

@SumErgoMonstro @SimulatedO And my determination of “authenticity” is that no male is a woman, EVER.