Coronado Islander Seminary

Our seminary class took Elder Bednar’s challenge seriously to flood the earth through social media. So far: • TikTok – not bad • Instagram – eh • X – apparently a tougher mission field! LDS community… help the youth out. Follow and repost if you see something worth sharing

Yeah. You’re applying 21st sensibilities to mid 19th century framework. Historians would reject that view. Small constitutional-law point: in 1844 the First Amendment had not yet been incorporated against the states. Modern free-press doctrine didn’t arrive until decades later through the Fourteenth Amendment and cases like Gitlow. Whether the Nauvoo City Council was right is debatable, but the legal framework wasn’t the one we use today. And Joseph was released on bail. Then charged with “treason” so was never released. Your “ultimately led to his death” is carrying a heavy load! Don’t forget to mention the corrupt politicians, and then a mob who killed him because of religious bigotry.

@CHS_Seminary @BluefiremarkII @JDP_PTL @Schilling1776 Just because you hate something doesn't mean you have a right to destroy it, even if you're the town mayor. Joe made his bed on that one, it ultimately led to his death in Carthage 20 days later. Is it more controversial than the mountain meadows massacre?

I really dislike all the attacks on my Mormon friends on here. Mormons are some of the most Christlike people you will ever meet. They operate in charity and self sacrifice. And you know what? They put family at the core of their lives. They love children and view them as blessings from God. I know a lot of Christians who have terrible views on children and family. America has a lot of problems and I think the last possible problem is the Mormon community. I obviously disagree with their theology or else I would be Mormon. But give me a break about heresy and doctrine when there are over 40,000 different interpretations of Christianity since the Protestant reformation.

@abrasive_noodle @BluefiremarkII @JDP_PTL @Schilling1776 Hahahaha. Zing! The Nauvoo Expositor episode is one of the most controversial events in LDS history. But it’s also a lot more complicated than “Joseph Smith hated freedom of the press.

@CHS_Seminary @BluefiremarkII @JDP_PTL @Schilling1776 Well sure, without 1st amendment protections to practice the religion of your choice your religion wouldn't exist to begin with. I just wish you were full supporters of the rest of the 1st amendment, such as the freedom of the press... Like the nauvoo expositor printing press

@ServusDeiVivi @theblessedsalt Sounds good! I wish you the best of luck on your path with Christ!

@CHS_Seminary @theblessedsalt There is no "mind trick", there's just your hypocrisy. You claim you can't be understood from a "Wikipedia summary of your religion", yet try and understand me through Twitter comments. How is that different? Your church's depiction of Jesus is NOT the Christian one.

The main reason I won’t read the Book of Mormon is because it’s garbage. The second reason is its style is close enough to the Bible that it might hijack a genuine verse in my memory. Without just cause/proportionate reason, I’d even think it’s a sin to introduce that spoil and rot to your interior life.

@Skyblade12 @RykerJackson97 @AndyYoung46 I wasn’t going to comment, but this account has 1000 followers. For reals??

@CHS_Seminary @RykerJackson97 @AndyYoung46 It was the Mormons who attempted to enslave us into worshipping their heresies that started this.

The strangest thing about all this discourse is that I’m realizing a lot of Christians seem to think we hate or have an unfavorable opinion of them, but that just isn’t true. In fact, we don’t view any religion negatively, even though we are the most negatively viewed religion.

Hahaha. Nice Jedi mind trick. I shared my personal experience. You responded by explaining why my personal experience didn’t actually happen. That’s like attending someone’s father’s funeral and saying, “Actually, you didn’t love him. Let me explain your feelings to you.” You can disagree with my theology. Reading my mind is a tougher sell.

@CHS_Seminary @theblessedsalt So you're presuming to understand me based off of a caricature you've created, where I do such minimal research into the things I oppose that I rely on "Wikipedia summary's" instead of your own publicly professed doctrines lmao This is the topic:

@LutheranAnswers Glad you think so highly of us!!

@CHS_Seminary I've been to several.

I mean... Yes

I honestly don’t know what we are talking about now. I don’t deny what my church teaches. I just don’t think a person can be fully understood from a Wikipedia summary of their religion. History is full of examples where reducing people to labels instead of treating them as individuals didn’t end well. I’m happy to discuss beliefs. I’m also trying to be a decent human being while doing it.

@CHS_Seminary @theblessedsalt I think you're confused here. I don't need to know you as an individual to know what you believe. You literally advertise your beliefs in your bio, and what your church believes is public knowledge. Are you saying you don't believe what your church does?

@ServusDeiVivi @theblessedsalt Brother, again. You don’t know me. I ain’t perfect. But I ain’t a phony.

@CHS_Seminary @theblessedsalt This fake kindness slop doesn't work on me, bud.

@Parley_Preaches This!! I admit the impulse to be snarky over the weekend was HIGH. But I’ve since repented and tried to build bridges instead of burning them.

"The enemy of truth would divide us and cultivate within us attitudes of criticism which, if permitted to prevail, will only deter us in the pursuit of our great divinely given goal."

You called me, Shakespeare. I was so touched. I forwarded it to my high school English teacher! Nothing but love from this end, brother ! Most of my friends are Catholic and I genuinely appreciate their spirituality and friendship. We have much more in common than the haters want you to believe

@CHS_Seminary @theblessedsalt No one was complimenting you.

@ServusDeiVivi @theblessedsalt Thanks for the compliment!

@CHS_Seminary @theblessedsalt Oh give it a rest Shakespeare. I don't need to "look into your heart" to know what you believe by association with your LDS church.

@ServusDeiVivi @theblessedsalt You are unqualified to look into my heart and judge me for what you I think I believe. That’s all.

@CHS_Seminary @theblessedsalt "Unqualified" Do tell exactly what is required for a person to be "qualified". Go on.

Fair enough, and I genuinely appreciate the thoughtful conversation. I don’t disagree with the scriptures you cited. In fact, I believe we should reason, study, and search the scriptures diligently. I also believe God invites us to ask Him directly: “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.” (James 1:5) For me, faith has involved both study and prayer. I’ve tried to do both. I wish you the very best in your walk with Christ. Thanks for taking the time to have a respectful conversation.

But you see, the Bible says: ““Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord, “Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.” Isaiah 1:18 It doesn’t ask me to read and how it makes me feel. It asked me to reason, even study: “Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.” Acts 17:11 Even searching the scriptures to make sure what the apostles are saying is true! When it comes to feelings: ““The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?” Jeremiah 17:9 The Book of Mormon (which I have read in part) contradicts parts of the Bible, and the other two major Mormon texts: The Pearl of Great Price and The Doctrine and Covenants contradict the Bible even more. As a Berean I cannot accept them as truth.

The Mormon church doesn’t teach Grace alone. Some Mormons may not even know this. Part of the requirement for reaching exaltation is keeping the whole law. If you read the book of Romans you will see that keeping the law is impossible for all of us, which is why we needed Jesus:

I’ve always found the idea of preexistence beautiful, not troubling. When God tells Jeremiah, “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee” (Jer. 1:5), and when Paul says God “chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world” (Eph. 1:4), it suggests our relationship with God began long before birth. Maybe we disagree on the details, but I’ve never found comfort in the idea that we’re cosmic accidents. I believe we are known, loved, and part of God’s plan.

@CHS_Seminary I’m not entirely convinced that we are. Because I don’t entirely think we agree on what HUMANS are. This puts it much more articulately than I can: godlovesmormons.com/a-biblical-cas…

I’ve genuinely enjoyed our conversation, and I’d be happy to continue it. But if you sincerely want to know whether Latter-day Saints worship the same Jesus I worship, podcasts, critics, and social media probably aren’t the best way to find out. My invitation is simple: read the Book of Mormon. Read it sincerely and ask God if it is what it claims to be. If it isn’t, you’ve only invested a little time. If it is, that changes everything. I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I believe Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. I know I have been forgiven through Him. I’ve read the Book of Mormon, prayed about it, studied it, and found that it brings me closer to Jesus Christ, not farther away. Come and see.

@CHS_Seminary The topic is really been: Are we talking about the same Jesus?

Fair question. The short answer is that I am trying to become what God wants me to become through the grace of Jesus Christ. But I wouldn’t describe my faith as trying to “replace God” or become His rival. Scripture repeatedly speaks of becoming heirs of God, joint-heirs with Christ, partakers of the divine nature, and being transformed into Christ’s image. Whatever exaltation means, it is entirely dependent on and subordinate to God, not independent of Him. I don’t mind discussing exaltation, but I notice we keep changing topics. We started with whether Latter-day Saints follow Jesus. Then whether we worship Jesus. Then whether Jesus is divine. Then the nature of the Godhead. Now exaltation. I’m happy to discuss all of them, but it seems we’re moving whenever we get close to finding common ground.

Can I ask a sincere question? Are you working to become a god? Because that changes things. If you think that God was once a man, and that all of this isn’t for God’s glory but to eventually rise to an equal status, that’s very different. I ask not as a “gotcha” but because it’s taught by the church in the student handbook.

Notice how the standard keeps changing. First it was “Do you follow Jesus?” Then “Do you worship Jesus?” Then “Do you believe Jesus is divine?” Now it’s “Do you define the Godhead exactly as I do?” We’re getting much closer to the actual disagreement. If I said Jesus wasn’t divine, I wouldn’t expect Latter-day Saints to accept that. But that’s not our belief. The debate isn’t “Is Jesus divine?” The debate is “What does it mean that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one?” Those are different questions.

@CHS_Seminary Let's say I spent my life talking about Jesus, praying to Jesus, teaching Jesus's commands, and trying to follow Jesus. But I also held that Jesus was not divine, and certainly not "god." Would that be acceptable? Could I officially become a Mormon believing that?

The 4 Stages of Grief of the Mormon apologist: Stage 1: We are true Christians! Stage 2: They didn't really mean 'homoousios' at Nicaea! Stage 3: Being Christian doesn't mean holding to the Nicene Creed! Stage 4: Jesus never even used the word "Christian"!

Love it! By the Romans 10 standard, am I not saved: I confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead. And I firmly believe that with all my heart. Romans 10:9 is one of the reasons I consider myself a Christian. Isn’t the rest just footnotes?? But I don’t know that you answered my question. My question wasn’t about whether someone is saved by Christ’s grace or by their own works. It was whether God hears sincere seekers who are reaching toward Him with imperfect understanding. I believe He does. In fact, I think that’s the story of much of scripture.

“Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” John 14:6 Now, if this person does get saved through Jesus, but remains in a false faith where they are focused on works over faith? “You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” Galatians 3:1-14 I think the question is, where are they placing their trust. In Christ alone as fully sufficient, or Jesus PLUS. So that is really between them and God. One would hope that someone could come along and help to disciple them, so that they can grow in their faith (if it’s really just Jesus, who is fully God and fully) or help them to see that it is not by works: “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;” Romans 10:9

The funny thing is that if I spend my life talking about Jesus, praying to Jesus, teaching Jesus, and trying to follow Jesus, your response is apparently: “Yes, but not with the correct paperwork.” LARPing!? I actually like that one. You caught me — every Sunday I put on the white shirt, grab my scriptures like a prop sword, and role-play the restored church while secretly hoping the gold plates show up as DLC someday. And don’t forget cool underwear. Y’all seem to get fascinated by that.

You're neither following Christ, nor are you Christian. But you are correct that I mean something technical and theological. The problem is that downstream it actually means that you are explicitly not doing something you claim to be doing, all because your group decided to hijack the word 'Christian.' Nobody before even the 20th century defined your version of paganism as 'Christian', nor did anyone hold your version of Paganism before the 19th century. So, yeah. You guys can't just LARP and put on a hat that says 'Christian'.