Self-existing things can exist? Go universe! Whoops, I've just debunked God.

@oohglobbits5 The universe has a beginning, therefore it has a cause. It's amazing how atheists just pretend not to understand things. Though calling you an atheist is an insult to atheists.

@BibleExpertise @oohglobbits5 No one say the universe has a beginning

@Boumka01 @BibleExpertise @oohglobbits5 The scientific consensus is that the universe appears to have a beginning in finite time.

@otpcrypto @Boumka01 @BibleExpertise @oohglobbits5 Well... Not really: phys.org/news/2026-05-l…

@Tim0riginal @Boumka01 @BibleExpertise @oohglobbits5 More over if time did not have a beginning we hit the "traversal problem". Plus If the universe were infinitely old, why has it not already reached maximum entropy.

@otpcrypto @BibleExpertise @oohglobbits5 Maybe ask the physicists

@Tim0riginal @BibleExpertise @oohglobbits5 This is more of a phylosophical question.

It's both. 1. Time is the ordering of events (earlier/later relations). 2. If time began, there must be a difference between a state with no time and a state with time. 3. Any difference between states requires ordering. 4. Ordering presupposes time. C. Therefore, time cannot begin to exist.

@Tim0riginal @BibleExpertise @oohglobbits5 The claim “ordering presuposes time” is false—because mathematics has fully consistent ordering systems that exist without any temporal interpretation whatsoever.

@otpcrypto @BibleExpertise @oohglobbits5 That's a category error. I'm talking about temporal ordering between states of affairs, not abstract mathematical ordering in a formal system.

@Tim0riginal @BibleExpertise @oohglobbits5 How can you talk about temporal ordering of a state that has no time? (State before bigbang) Temporal ordering works only within time. Yet maths and logic ordering exists without time. That's the whole point of a timeless inteligence that orders things outside of time.

@otpcrypto @BibleExpertise @oohglobbits5 Change requires a before and after. A timeless state has neither. So a transition from timelessness to time already presupposes temporal succession and therefore cannot explain the origin of time.

@Tim0riginal @BibleExpertise @oohglobbits5 That's why we say that an agent (God) idependent from time, caused the existence of time. Eternity is one main characteristic of God, he never changes. You suppose that the universe had a timeless state. I say that the universe did not have a timeless state.