Always Reforming

@AlexHam1111 @OhL00kasquirrel @SarahRBader Putting them in charge of other people’s kids would be unwise. I agree. But prohibiting them from getting married and having a family is debatable. It just seems like we’re saying that a person can’t change, therefore can’t have a normal life, because of past sin.

@isaacehalls @OhL00kasquirrel @SarahRBader I am never going to put a known, even repentant, pedo in as a child's Sunday School teacher... Never. You can act all righteous about it but it's sheer lunacy and ungodliness.

Well that’s embarrassing. 🤣 bless her heart.

@AlexHam1111 @OhL00kasquirrel @SarahRBader You keep acting like people can’t change. And no amount of time or outward behavior can change “what they are”. And we should never ever believe they can. This mentality is no different than saying gays can’t change.

@isaacehalls @OhL00kasquirrel @SarahRBader It's not objectively good if your issue is with kids. It's like saying teaching kid Sunday School is objectively good so let's have "former" pedos do it. You are being ridiculous in your defense of Wilson. You are making him look insane.

@AlexHam1111 @OhL00kasquirrel @SarahRBader I say all this as someone that thinks pedophilia should be a capital crime. But it isn’t. So given that, the question is what to do with someone that was one and then comes to Christ. Not sure wearing a lifelong scarlet letter is the right thing. David was a murderer/adulterer

@AlexHam1111 @OhL00kasquirrel @SarahRBader The difference is that, of course, having a tinder profile or hanging out in gay bars is looking for sin/sinful. Having kids is objectively good. You’re basically saying that once a pedophile always a pedophile. “but such were some of you” (1 Cor 6) Your issue is with scripture

@OhL00kasquirrel @AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader Btw, I don’t know if there’s a more recent update but as of a few years ago they were still married. I understand there has been court involvement, but sitler hasn’t been arrested or prosecuted for anything, has he? We don’t know if his family is suffering or not.

@isaacehalls @AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader Our courts may fail to administer just sentences, but the church is able to discipline its members & enforce consequences to those that submit to the authority of the pastor/elders. Doug failed to do so & now Sitler’s wife & child will suffer the consequences of Doug’s actions.

@OhL00kasquirrel @AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader Or adulterers or serial fornicators who come to Christ? Are they to endure enforced life long celibacy as well?

@OhL00kasquirrel @AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader So are you against ex gays getting married too?

@OhL00kasquirrel @AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader I agree a righteous judicial system would put to death pedophiles. However, granting that we don’t have that, and that Sitler appeared to repent and come to Jesus, the question is whether a pastor is in a position to say “you’re a new creation, but not entirely new”.

@isaacehalls @AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader Pedophiles, repentant or not, should AT LEAST suffer earthly consequences of celibacy & (preferably) castration. & Truly repentant pedos wouldn’t seek marriage where kids were an option. FTR, Wilson has stated that even now, knowing the outcome, he would marry them again.

@AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader Didn’t argue that. Neither did Wilson

@isaacehalls @SarahRBader To argue American chattel slavery was good for Africans is ludicrous.

@AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader I agree. But that isn’t the issue in question. The issue is: once they were here, where many of them treated well (at least compared to the life they would have had in Africa). I think that’s at least a discussion that could be had.

@isaacehalls @SarahRBader Yes, in their own country. Because of the slave trade this is the % that died even before slave holders could "evangelize" them. 15-30% in capture & marches to the coast 10-15% Sea crossing 20-50% In first few years of labor in US All those deaths before any "gospel."

@AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader In their own country, where they were being subjected to constant tribal warfare and being sold into slavery by their own people? Agreed, freedom is better. But what’s better than a “free” man who is enslaved to idols? An “enslaved” man who is free in Christ.

@isaacehalls @SarahRBader Evangelizing them in their own country as free people would have been 10,000 times better. Could you find instances of mutual respect? Probably to some degree. But if you offered slaves freedom and a TRUE shot at the American dream, I know which one they would have chosen.

@AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader Agreed. Biblically, that is a capital offense. Now, could it also be true that many of those slaves ended up loving the people who owned them and respecting them? And perhaps we’re blessed with Christian evangelizing they wouldn’t have received in Africa? Are both possibly true?

@isaacehalls @SarahRBader Yeah, he has been duplicitous in his teaching. He extolls slavery's virtues but then says, "But I said it was wrong in this instance." The system was wrong & evil. Kidnapping people from a far off land, forcing them into life-ling slavery, & often using violence is sinful.

@AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader …which would be a weird and entirely stupid and inconsistent thing to say if he also thought the system invited God’s judgment on the nation. Or maybe…you’re taking him as uncharitably as possible, instead of just saying something like “he should have been more precise”.

@isaacehalls @SarahRBader Read that quote again. It's not saying there were individual experiences that might have been good. It is speaking about the whole. It says, "Slavery as it existed in the South..."

@AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader I think a credible change and confession of faith is relevant when judging these things. But then again I wasn’t there. If you feel confident judging from a distance, be my guest. But from a distance, Wilson seems to have been trying to do the right thing. Even if he didn’t.

@isaacehalls @SarahRBader If you divorce, you are called not to remarry (unless your spouse dies). So, yeah, I don't have a problem with Sittler being told to remain celibate.

@AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader Again, was this him characterizing the entire system? Or individual experiences within it? Definitely the latter, as he explained later on. He even said the civil war was a judgment on the nation for the system. We don’t want to accept nuance from people we’ve decided to dislike

@isaacehalls @SarahRBader "Slavery as it existed in the South was not an adversarial relationship with pervasive and racial animosity. Because of its dominantly patriarchal character it was a relationship based upon mutual affection and confidence." 1/2

@AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader Provide the quote then. And also, 1 Corinthians 6 says otherwise. Being a sexual deviant before Christ does not condemn a person to a life of celibacy. Doug may have had poor judgment. I’m going to let those closest to the situation decide that. You should too.

@isaacehalls @SarahRBader Yes and yes.

@AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader Did Doug give an endorsement of American chattel slavery? Or did he observe that it wasn’t all bad? We often ignore nuance with those we dislike What would the pastors you know have done for this man? By all appearances, a repentant man. Tell him he had to be celibate for life?

@isaacehalls @SarahRBader In no world is American chattel slavery not evil. Don't put that on God. Yes, Doug knew the facts before he married them. A baby was brought into the union and had a father get sexually aroused by him. A judge had to step in. No pastor I know would ever have married them.

@AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader Book: perhaps dumb. Perhaps an attempt to illustrate the wicked trajectory of our culture in a way that challenges the culture. Slavery: not evil, unless God was also evil. Did Doug know all of those facts before counseling the couple? Or is this Monday morning quarterbacking?

@isaacehalls @SarahRBader If we are in the church, judging him is appropriate...even mandatory. Paul said to do it in 1 Cor 5 as I quoted earlier. The book--dumb View of slavery--evil Counseling a woman to marry a guy who molested 25 kids b/c it would help him with his urges --vile and abominable.

@BrockReads @SarahRBader Even if that’s true (I would argue it’s perhaps a mixed bag, but who isn’t?), we ought not to act uncharitably towards those who are mean to us.

@isaacehalls @SarahRBader We should all be charitable. Doug and his tribe don’t do it very well, but we all should.

@AlexHam1111 @SarahRBader I’m not giving him a free pass. I’m saying reasonable Christians can disagree with his rationale for the book, his view of slavery, or marrying a man in his church who he viewed as being repentant. But you aren’t disagreeing. You’re phrasing what he’s done as intentionally evil

@isaacehalls @SarahRBader This is how Christians' think? Always protecting their own? Wrong! What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church...Are you not to judge those inside? We make a HUGE mistake when we treat our own with kid gloves but hit our enemy (the Left?) w/ all we got.