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@sunandr_

co-founder & ceo @veda_labs

Beigetreten Şubat 2013
2.1K Folgt2.4K Follower
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Sun
Sun@sunandr_·
You've probably heard that Vaults are the next big thing, and that fintechs are moving onchain. We do our best to demystify the tech behind Vaults and why they are becoming critical infrastructure for fintechs. It was a privilege to speak with @JasonYanowitz and @JohnZettler. Yano is a legend and has been way ahead of the curve on vaults as a category. John is one of the most prolific product builders in crypto, having built cbETH, cbBTC, Coinbase Earn, and now Kraken DeFi Earn. There's a ton of alpha here, you don't want to miss it
Yano 🟪@JasonYanowitz

Think this is the single best podcast to understand Vaults. My two takeaways: 1) Vaults will scale from $6B to $15B+ this year 2) DeFi and fintech will merge. DeFi is just better financial APIs Big thanks to @sunandr_ and @JohnZettler for doing this.

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Sun@sunandr_·
DAS is positioned to be one of the highest signal events of the year. The institutions aren't just exploring curious anymore, they're doing diligence and going shopping. Excited to discuss all things vaults and yield
Veda@veda_labs

We're heading to @blockworksDAS next week and taking over the Institutional Stage. Join us for DeFi Vaults: Building Future-Proof Earn for Institutions to hear why enterprises are integrating vaults + what fintechs should look for in a vault provider. Speakers: @sunandr_ and @JohnZettler Moderator: @jacqmelinek Date + Time: Tuesday, March 24 at 4:20pm Location: Institutional Track, 4th Floor, Room 405 See you there!

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Sun@sunandr_·
@veH0rny @dcfgod Only 10 reviews? Might need to refresh on statistics 101
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DCF GOD
DCF GOD@dcfgod·
✅Etherfi buybacks are back on (no clue why they were off for a few days) ✅ Final investor vest sent out. No more VC overhang. ✅ Daily spend at ATH using cards ($2.5M/d) ✅ Staking TVL back above $6b ✅ Upbit listing yesterday ✅ Adding ~300 new cards a day ✅ CAC going down, ARPU going up, Payback period compressing sallygazzy mode note: dcf cap seeded ethfi
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Veda
Veda@veda_labs·
We're heading to @blockworksDAS next week and taking over the Institutional Stage. Join us for DeFi Vaults: Building Future-Proof Earn for Institutions to hear why enterprises are integrating vaults + what fintechs should look for in a vault provider. Speakers: @sunandr_ and @JohnZettler Moderator: @jacqmelinek Date + Time: Tuesday, March 24 at 4:20pm Location: Institutional Track, 4th Floor, Room 405 See you there!
Veda tweet media
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jack0x.eth
jack0x.eth@0xjack_·
A very overdue update: Last year I joined Plasma as Head of Engineering to spearhead the development of our flagship product, Plasma One. After a few years at MetaMask, it became clear that building products that make crypto easier to use will see the most distribution. Today, the tools and infrastructure that exist unlock entirely new levels of usability: account abstraction, fast finality, real-world crypto spending with cards, and more. For the first time, the infrastructure exists to make this possible. That's why we're building Plasma One. Money is changing and we are at the tipping point. Crypto is competing with traditional finance on multiple fronts. Aave has more outstanding loans than Klarna. Hyperliquid volumes are comparable to Robinhood. And now, Plasma One can compete with neobanks like Revolut on simplicity and reliability. My personal north star is simple: Plasma One should be so intuitive that my parents use it. We are building Plasma One to be the home of new money. Because stablecoins are new money. Global, borderless, permissionless, and programmable. But the expectation when people interact with stablecoins is the same as with fiat. That gap is exactly what we're building for. Plasma One is in private beta now. We're shipping fast and opening up early access soon. We are building money that just works, and your money deserves Plasma One.
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Sun@sunandr_·
@reganbozman I don't think turning on fees is as trivial as you are suggesting, especially in a model where most of the flows increasingly come from Enterprise rather than direct to consumer
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Regan Bozman
Regan Bozman@reganbozman·
@sunandr_ aave's revenue is declining and morpho could clearly turn on the fee switch i have no proprietary knowledge on fee switch but it clearly seems like the direction defi is headed in
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Regan Bozman
Regan Bozman@reganbozman·
what is the bull case for aave at this point relative to morpho? stani going back into founder mode? morpho relatively overvalued?
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Sun@sunandr_·
@joshkessler_ Barbell thesis. The teams with the absolute most leverage (E.g. major fintechs) prefer neutral infra if they aren't building it themselves
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Josh
Josh@joshkessler_·
Bad take from an otherwise smart guy. Developers pick the chain that most enhances their leverage. Full stop. Confident in your idea? → Go where the users already are (e.g., Ethereum, Solana, Hyperliquid) Proven protocol? → Expand strategically where you get new revenue or distribution Unproven team? → Pick the chain that gives you the best shot at survival (grants, distro, mentorship) No team that has an ounce of leverage is interested in 100% credible neutrality. It's always the teams with no leverage.
Lightspeed@Lightspeedpodhq

Neutrality is the only way to build long-term. Corporate chains fail because developers refuse to build on infra they don't own; credible neutrality is non-negotiable for success. "People don't wanna build on someone else's chain. They want something neutral." @tushar_jain

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Sun@sunandr_·
@andrewhong5297 Agreed, the currently touted defi "agents" are equivalent to century old optimization routines. Real financial agents need to be much more sophisticated. Optimizing risk does not have a closed form solution
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ilemi
ilemi@andrewhong5297·
Rebalancing for risk is an agent strategy we're testing with a few teams now. The idea of an agent tracking vault functions/roles by counterparty, liquidity, and operational risk, and setting up guardrails against them. It's a more qualitative and dynamic analysis than just yield optimization, which is what agents excel at. imo the current agent "optimizations" are really just if/else formulas, not truly agents used to their full potential.
Dan Smith@smyyguy

The idea that user run agents will continuously rebalance across vaults is so compelling, but the math isn't great for highly active rebalancing Average rebalance tx fee: $0.001 Rebalance rate: every 10 seconds Annual rebalance cost: -$3,154 Deposit size: $100k Baseline Yield: 5% Return: $5,000 So active rebalancing needs to outperform baseline yield by 63% just to break even. There is also thin yield differentials between the top low risk vaults, so I'm skeptical how one would outperform by 63% without altering the risk profile With hourly or daily rebalancing, the transaction costs are extremely low, so it becomes viable. Would be interesting to track how much better that would outperform a set and forget strategy, my guess is not great, but not sure However, active rebalancing seems pretty interesting for high risk strategies, where yield differentials are greater and being the first to exit can meaningfully protect your capital. This seems like a much more likely applications, but these agents will need much richer data and context Fun times ahead

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Sun@sunandr_·
This idea is one reason why vaults (pooling) make sense even in a world of personalized financial agents: amortizing transaction costs across many users / capital
Dan Smith@smyyguy

The idea that user run agents will continuously rebalance across vaults is so compelling, but the math isn't great for highly active rebalancing Average rebalance tx fee: $0.001 Rebalance rate: every 10 seconds Annual rebalance cost: -$3,154 Deposit size: $100k Baseline Yield: 5% Return: $5,000 So active rebalancing needs to outperform baseline yield by 63% just to break even. There is also thin yield differentials between the top low risk vaults, so I'm skeptical how one would outperform by 63% without altering the risk profile With hourly or daily rebalancing, the transaction costs are extremely low, so it becomes viable. Would be interesting to track how much better that would outperform a set and forget strategy, my guess is not great, but not sure However, active rebalancing seems pretty interesting for high risk strategies, where yield differentials are greater and being the first to exit can meaningfully protect your capital. This seems like a much more likely applications, but these agents will need much richer data and context Fun times ahead

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Josh
Josh@joshkessler_·
Kraken DeFi Earn surpassed over $100M in deposits. Here's what the data is telling us: 📈 $113M in TVL (up 3,015% since launch on Jan 26) 👥 25,000+ users and growing 🔵 5+ DeFi protocols integrated to deliver yield 🚫 Zero marketing incentives On average, @krakenfx and @Krak users earned over 50x the national average checking account rate in February, and beat many of the best high-yield savings accounts on the market. All this with no caps, no minimum deposit requirements, and no strings attached. Crypto rails are inevitable. @veda_labs vaults are the gateway.
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Sun@sunandr_·
This is the fastest *organically* growing product in DeFi history. $100M TVL, 25k users, zero incentives. Launching without incentives was a bold strategy by Kraken. The typical GTM is to launch with big incentives that taper to zero over time, with the hope that some fraction of users stick around. The challenge in DeFi is the "hot ball of money" that goes around chasing the highest incentives and leaving as soon as it runs out. With Kraken DeFi Earn we skipped right to the last part: organic, structure demand from real users
Veda@veda_labs

NEWS: Kraken DeFi Earn has surpassed $100 million in total deposits. It’s never been easier to earn on idle assets. Powered by 3 Veda vaults: Balanced + Boosted → curated by @chaoslabs Advanced → curated by @sentoraHQ Available on @krakenfx, @krakenpro, and @krak

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Sun@sunandr_·
@acimro @The3D_ Look at the volume on each coin and tell me what you think it means
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Sun@sunandr_·
90% of the takes on Aave here are brain dead and fail to account for the changing crypto market structure. For Aave to win, it needs to win enterprises. DeFi-native distribution is reaching its limits and its clear the next wave of users are entering through established fintechs / exchanges. The Aave service providers have clearly excelled at growing an onchain native business, but winning the enterprise vertical is entirely different. Enterprises do NOT want to work directly with a DAO Aave needs a leader with resources, connections, and latitude to prioritize the features that enterprises need. Stani is the only possible candidate. Pushing out Aave Labs would be the end of Aave long term. It would be accepting that Aave is only for DeFi-natives, and losing the enterprise game is losing everything.
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Sun@sunandr_·
@saint_rat @Kharek_ Finance is relationship driven. We can be principled and have nobody use our stuff, or we can make contact with reality. I don't view BGD leaving as a positive thing. Just pointing out that the current discourse is misguided
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Saint Rat
Saint Rat@saint_rat·
@sunandr_ @Kharek_ this take is going to age like milk, swooning companies is not the purpose of crypto lending is about pricing counter-party risk, not BD relationships you can't frame this proposal and the ousting of BGD labs as anything but increasing counter-party risk
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Sun@sunandr_·
@norswap @0xpostrich I've seen the post. The idea that aave labs is bad at enterprise is unsupported. Enterprise was not a priority for aave in general (not just labs). Easy to pin the blame on one party but it was a global strategic error. Also, you have no idea how any of those deals went down
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@veH0rny @dcfgod @blockworksDAS @JohnZettler @jacqmelinek @0xjack_ @reganbozman @joshkessler_