固定されたツイート
I've seen a lot of notable streamers with some very interesting (perhaps uninformed) takes on Marvel Tokon. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills hearing some of the opinions based on straight up misinformation.
Now, to be clear, I totally respect the opinion of not liking the game or not liking how the system mechanics work. It's a totally subjective thing. Not everything is for everyone... and that's totally cool. If you prefer Capcom's Marvel, or TTT, BBTAG, or anything else, it's awesome that those games exist.
I don't expect anyone to read this wall of text... but if you want some more info and insight into Tokon, take a look.
Anyway, here are a few takeaways from Test 2:
[ Assists ]
Assists in general show a lot of potential. At first, it seems as if you have your neutral assist (ground and air variants) and then the universal one mid-strike. Doing an assist mid-combo seems to do the universal one which is pretty plain.
However, once you start to learn that you can ALSO call assists whenever you are not in an attack state to get the character specific ones (both ground and air), you realize you have a lot more to work with. Calling an assist upon landing, after a fly cancel, after a jump cancel - basically anytime you are "neutral" - will all net the unique assist. Instead of getting the generic horizontal one, you get the full functionality of that character's standard assist which opens up new routes and extensions.
This not only affects your combos and pressure, but it also means the slot in which you have your characters matters more than you might think.
As an added benefit, when calling an assist in a "neutral" state (even in the middle of a combo) it costs NO assembly meter. It's basically a free assist. It also, as far as I can tell, does not increase the Combo Limit meter. However, unlike the standard generic assist, it also does NOT remove 2 from the Combo Limit... so a decent trade-off for no cost.
Remember, since the assist costs nothing, if you have 1 Assembly Meter, but 2 characters, you can use the first one to pin down mid block string (LMH > Assist), and while your point char recovers, you can call the secondary assist since you are in a "neutral" state for ZERO cost while also obtaining their unique behavior (Ironman pindown effect, for example).
[ Combos ]
I've also heard people saying that the whole game is LMH > Assist, LMH > Super. I've also heard that "autocombos are too strong".
First of all, LMH > Assist > LMH > Super was definitely not the experience I found. As a Dr Doom player, my go-to combo was:
M-H > 214L > Assist, 6U (Aegis), M > DP+H, 6U (Aegis), 2M-2H > JC, j.H > JC > dj.M-H > 236M.
The variant, when midscreen, was:
M-H > f+A(Tap)+H(Hold) - Opponent Hits Aegis and Bounces Back, 2M > 236L (send player to Aegis) - Opponent Hits Aegis and Bounces Back, DP+M, 6U, 2M > DP+H, 6H - Opponent Bounces Back, 2M > 236L... (Super here if you want).
With Ghost Rider, my go-to was:
2M-5H > 214L~6M > Assist, dash M-2H > JC, j.H... then from here it's up to the scenario. Can jump H again then U (Hold) > 214L (Splat or Break), or you can Jump H-H > Tag... land and continue. Many other variations.
None of these are really that much different from any other anime-style tag combo (imo).
As far as "autocombos are too strong", I think people just haven't explored the combo system. Basic LLLL does like 16-18k. Manual combos deal MUCH greater damage.
When doing an autocombo, getting the special "minilaunch" move adds +5 to your Combo Limit. This means that LLLL is already 8/10 on your Limit. You are dramatically restricted on what you can do next.
At least doing LMH > Assist is only 1/10 on your combo meter. However, to highlight the misinformation about the previous point (LMH > Assist, LMH > Super) that means you are doing your super at 4/10 of your Combo Meter. That is absolutely not efficient nor optimal. If that's the breath of your combo knowledge in the game, there's a long way to go.
Even in the short amount of time people had in Beta 2, people already started discovering more technical elements (outside of all the assist stuff I mentioned). You can combo certain things that normally wouldn't combo with well-timed delays.
For example:
I found out that Doom could combo 2M-2H... delay, 214M (and H fullscreen) which gives him a break option off a basic combo with no Assist. This means that you can use your Assist later in the combo.
My generic "works anywhere" Doom combo was M-H > 214L > Assist (as mentioned above), but I've already used the Assist (Assembly Meter cost) and I can no longer finish the combo with another 214L/M/H for the break. If you use the grab a second time, it instantly ends the combo. This is where technique and game knowledge comes into play.
With this new knowledge, you could instead do 2M-2H > JC, j.H > JC, dj.H-H > Assist, land, M-2H > 214M. You could also end at the wall with 214L if you DON'T want to break, but that's up to you... strategic choice.
As another example, the aforementioned delay tech also allows you to get all the hits of Starlord's gun (which still only count as 1 point on the Combo Limit... but deals more damage).
[ Training Mode ]
Training Mode would have absolutely helped squash SOME of the misinformation. As a lab monster myself, I absolutely would have loved a Training Mode... but it didn't take Training Mode for the community to discover a lot of really cool stuff in the 3 days of Beta 2.
Would they have discovered more? Yes. Would it have probably been a good look for the game? Yes. I'm not disagreeing with any of that... but it seems they wanted to test online stuff... so that's what they did.
[ Closing ]
In the end, I feel like it comes down to people wanting the game to play one way, and it ending up being something completely different. The "Marvel" name is both a blessing and a curse for Tokon.
End of the day, if you don't like it, that's totally fine... but if you do hope it's actually good, maybe spend some time really digging into the systems to find out... before claiming it's a bust. Maybe it will be a bust... but coming up with a list of complaints - of which, many are demonstratively false - is not a good look.
You can't be talking about how you are the type of player that is really good at finding stuff early, while not finding all of the stuff that directly conflicts with a lot of your complaints.
Just saying.
Anyway. Yes, there are still some issues. The game isn't perfect. I personally find myself accidentally swapping when I don't mean to (if I hold the button down a bit too long). Sometimes I forgot if my next assist should be Back or Forward (Neutral) if I swap sides (so the controls don't mirror the Diamond Grid next to the health bar). Sometimes 2H works well as AA, sometimes it doesn't (consistency).
Finally, I'm going to reiterate the statement that you don't have to like the game. If you don't like it, that's cool. It may not be for you. Hell, it may not actually be for me when it comes out... but we are still in the learning period and I feel there is a LOT to learn.
That's a really exciting time for any game.
#FGC #MarvelTokonFightingSouls #MarvelTokon
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