Accounted4

@onceagainmoore @Leophilius @MattisRedacted He is saying mass/energy (naturally including them as concepts) *doesn’t* have a cause/beginning. I was simply pointing out your move to their conceptual form doesn’t negate this claim.

@Accounted44 @Leophilius @MattisRedacted I think we were referring to the concepts of mass and energy. The concepts of mass and energy also had a cause and beginning. Do you now of any masses that didn't have a cause?

Who caused the sun? Get cooked nerd

@vant008 @JoelMCurzon If “mind” = possession of consciousness/intention, and consciousness/intention exist by possessing Being, and “mind” = Being then, you defined Mind/Being as = consciousness/intention + Mind/Being. There exists a clear contradiction here. A =/= B + A

@vant008 @JoelMCurzon Except it has massive implications considering it would require at least 2 definitions of what it means to have more “mind.” Being cannot itself be defined by what it has/possesses. It is that which all possess not the possessed. The question follows from the nature of Being.

Theism is essentially a claim that fundamental reality is some kind of ‘person.’ If that claim doesn’t strike you as utterly bizarre, why doesn’t it?

@vant008 @JoelMCurzon You ignored my point that the foundation of reality (Being itself) cannot be a mind but could be mind *itself*. You’d didn’t define “mind.” + If “mind” is the foundation of reality (Being) then how can something be real without possessing mind? How could it *be* without Being?

@Accounted44 @JoelMCurzon We could all exist in Gods mind so it literally can but either way, my point stands. If “non person” means “without a mind” and “not mind itself” then it is all accidental No. Rocks do not have a mind. Mind means conscious which involved intentionality

@vant008 @JoelMCurzon No it literally can’t, the fundamental thing reality is based off must be maximally simple and so can’t be a mind but could be mind *itself*. What that would mean/imply then depends on how you define “mind.” Ex) Do rocks have “mind?”

@Accounted44 @JoelMCurzon If it’s a non-person, does that mean no mind was involved? If so, everything I said is entailed within what you’ve just said. If there was no mind, it is accidental.

@vant008 @JoelMCurzon Atheism is essentially a claim that fundamental reality is some kind of 'non-person.' Note that non-person =/= accident, nothing, and/or an absence of logic.

@JoelMCurzon That’s because you aren’t recognizing: “person” It’s in quotes for a reason Atheism is essentially: reality is an accident and nothing caused it which is not only bizarre, but illogical

@onceagainmoore @Leophilius @MattisRedacted He already said mass/energy isn’t caused so, obviously anything you think necessarily follows from mass/energy existing (like the concept) would also then not be caused.

@Leophilius @MattisRedacted How did concept of mass come into existence? What caused the concept come into existence?

@darwintojesus Ah yes, because the atheist kantian, utilitarian, naturalist, relativist, subjectivist, nihilist, etc. actually all agree that morality is “whatever I do/decide.” What a complete, and totally not nonsensical, understanding of these ethical systems you have. /s

Just so everyone is clear, when atheists say this they really mean, “I can just pretend whatever I do is moral and call it morality.”

@needsleepsosad @AtheistTakes I’m really starting to believe you are either legit retarded (and I don’t mean as in insult) or you are just rage baiting.

@needsleepsosad @AtheistTakes Wat? No. You are the one equivocating between measurements and reality. Time is a real aspect of reality that we measure. Imagine saying space is just a measurement in meters not a real thing beyond that. Lightyear is when light moves straight, are you dumb?

Atheists cannot understand a non-spatial, non-temporal realm, therefore God does not exist

@needsleepsosad @AtheistTakes Are you retarded? I never said the Earth wouldn’t spin without man and I am obviously referring to time as in the real thing not our arbitrary measurement for it. Seriously, imagine this was about God existing in space and you start talking about the arbitrariness of the meter.

@Accounted44 @AtheistTakes You are really bad at abstract understanding If you die now. The earth would still spin, nobody will need you to counting it rotation or know what "time" it is Time as we counts, are based on the solar system and day/night cycle U r retarded

@needsleepsosad @AtheistTakes You can’t have such measured change from one to another without state. Just as distance/movement implies the existence of positions and together represent the concept of the spacial dimensions. I never said souls could die, how about you stop strawmaning yourself. 2/2

@needsleepsosad @AtheistTakes Don’t pretend saying something is “just a human concept” isn’t tantamount to saying it is illusionary/fake. And if you didn’t mean that I don’t see how that answers any of the problems I pointed out. Time isn’t just measurement, it is too state of being. (a moment) 1/2

@needsleepsosad @AtheistTakes Time isn’t an illusion, that’s just dumb, a time before time is contradictory nonsense. The concept of time includes the concepts: Moment, change, and beginning. Thus, you claim souls don’t exist in any moment, don’t undergo any change, nor have a beginning.

@Accounted44 @AtheistTakes ...time is just a human concept to comprehend the limit. A soul don't have time limit God sent His Begotten Son in order to became Human but still truly God, since then only He can save us, because no human is capable of being sinless When THE WORD became flesh, he able to die

@needsleepsosad @AtheistTakes If you say He exists within but unconstrained by it, then even if only this space +time realm exists God would exist fully. But if God can/does exist fully within a space+time realm, then the space+time realm contains everything without need of any additional realms. 2/2

@needsleepsosad @AtheistTakes If God can exist within the confines of a space+time realm then He would be operating within its limitations. If God can’t exist within said limitations then God doesn’t exist within it at all, even if He could interact with what is contained within it. 1/2

@Divine__Defense @AtheistTakes The laws of logic operate within time, space, and matter. What would the laws of logical existing in a place that doesn’t exist, at a time that doesn’t exist, applicable to material that doesn’t exist even mean?

@AtheistTakes Do the laws of logic exist? They are not confined by time, space, or matter.

@Divine__Defense @Thedon9994 @darwintojesus “I don’t assume minds come from an intelligence, I just assume that minds are transcendental and then assume transcendental things come from an intelligence.” You just made the assumption but with extra steps including more assumptions. You made it worse.

@Accounted44 @Thedon9994 @darwintojesus I don’t assume minds come from intelligence, I argue that they do via the TAG argument which is coherent.

We’ve only seen minds make things that are intelligible.

@Divine__Defense @Thedon9994 @darwintojesus What you know is based off unjustified assumptions. We don’t know why the constants have their values. We don’t know what values they can possibly possess besides the ones we have. We don’t know how the constants’ values interact if at all. Assumptions aren’t arguments.

@Accounted44 @Thedon9994 @darwintojesus I know about Roger Penrose’s calculations of this probability, and how the constants and quantities are fine tuned to a precision that if altered even a hair, there would be no life permitting universe.