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@AnInnes3

Be Traist. 24 y/o. Animist. Archaeology! Find my alt @shelflid

Albion Katılım Haziran 2020
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Innes
Innes@AnInnes3·
My approach: I propose an organic and grounded approach to furthering paganism, one with roots. In the past few days I have posted a lot about animism, especially as it pertains to Germanic culture. I have done this to present solid evidence that the idea of what can be termed ‘animism’ is applicable to the pre-Christian Germanic worldview, and is its defining feature.. If I were to have to describe the worldview of a broadly-speaking “Indo-European” person before Abrahamic influence, I would describe them as essentially operating within an animistic ontology. Likewise, if there was one thing that I would declare that all Indo-European people held as a universal value, it would be kinship and clannishness. I would also (as would many anthropologists) go as far as to term many recent European (and diaspora) populations as animistic, even if these were far less developed forms of animism than others. One of the leading scholars in the study of animistic thought has described animism as belonging to the elders of a society, not the children. The most authentic way to be a pagan, is to be a pagan in the way in which our own ancestors were. Rather than faring away to become a Hindu or a Buddhist, and rather than isolating oneself to a limited shelf of historical sources; I suggest that the best approach is to learn what it means to be an animist, to learn the complexities of how our ancestors viewed the world, and to reinvigorate and revive traditional European knowledge. Aspects from both approaches can be valid, the sources of utmost importance, as is our ability to look outside of our sphere to find wisdom in other cultures. But we operate from a solid foundation, and that is what I present here. This is the difference between incorporating sacred ale into a ritual because you understand the elements and relational way in which that beer is important, versus doing so because it is what they did, or doing so because a similar custom survives within the wishy-washy idea of an Indo-European world.
Innes@AnInnes3

On Indo-European(ism): Indo-Europeanism is a term that I used to describe the attempt at creating a pan-Indo-European identity in the modern day. When I think of Indo-Europeanists, I immediately think of a friend of mine; Hammer & Vajra, as well as other projects such as the Hammingja Foundation, Arya Akasha, and countless other individuals. Indo-Europeanists take a holistic approach and look at the wider Indo-European world as comparative mythologists and syncretists. Many seek initiation into 'Indo-European' religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, and others in an attempt to 'fill-in-the-gaps', or to sometimes entirely replace their native faiths. The justification here is that as we perceive these traditions to have derived from the same source, it is reasonable to cross these traditions over with one another 'organically.' By worshipping Durga, we worship Frigg, by worshipping Mahakala, we worship Odin, etc. Indo-Europeanists and syncretists often contrast and conflict with the Folkish movements exemplified by the likes of the Norrœna Society, and various other groups and individuals such as Dave Martel and his associates.. I am wary of both of these approaches. My issues: Indo-Europeans have never really existed to begin with. Now, it is undeniable that there does exist an Indo-European category of languages, and that there was a genetic population(s) associated with the spread of these languages. However, I suggest that there has never been a unified Indo-European people. The historical reality of the Indo-European peoples, and the contemporary identarian idea of these people are starkly different from one another. Indo-European identitarianism isn’t so different from pan-Germanicism, or pan-Celticism. It plays on the assumption that there was a time when all groups we might consider to be ‘Celtic’ ‘Germanic,’ or in this case ‘Indo-European’ were unified in one way or another (Yes, these groups may have recognized a shared culture, language and ancestry, but to call them truly united is an untruth.) Those who can admit that this is an untruth will argue then that this is not a historical revitalization project, but a project for a new identity in modernity -- which is a fair point. However, I suggest that this is antithetical to the revival of a so-called ‘Indo-European’ worldview that many claim to have existed. When examining the values of the Indo-European people, what is truly universal is that they are defined truly by their clannishness, and the animistic approach with which they took to life. Whilst I value those who seek some kind of spiritual truth in the East; I believe that there is a far more grounded and valuable approach that one can take.

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Innes
Innes@AnInnes3·
Some cultures maintain this tradition, especially in Asia. Not just in remote places unconnected from the wider world, and not in places lacking more realistic art. Our pagan Germanic, and Celtic ancestors also had very advanced artistic practices. So why did they not depict their deities as the Roman's, and the Greeks did? It's obvious that this was purposeful, and there was a reason behind it. Neglecting this is unwise.
Innes@AnInnes3

I disagree, our ancestors valued the abstract god poles, that is our aesthetic. We are not Greek, and we are not Roman.

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Innes@AnInnes3·
@FortressLugh If only you view it as a random art style, your point might have legs.
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Kevin MacLean (Fortress of Lugh)
@AnInnes3 We don't listen to the same music, partake in the same activities or rituals, but for some reason we have to honour the same divine art style of the iron age? No.
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Innes
Innes@AnInnes3·
@FortressLugh This is not an argument or a substantial point.
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Tom Rowsell
Tom Rowsell@Tom_Rowsell·
@AnInnes3 Important to remember that for the Greeks, the figurative marble representations of the gods were not as holy as the abstract xoanons made of wood which were kept in the inner sanctum of the temple and looked much like how Germanics and Slavs etc depicted the gods
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Innes
Innes@AnInnes3·
Indigenous NW European artwork depicting humanoids and (possibly) deities is far more abstract and 'primitive' than Greco-Roman ideals. I do not believe this is because they were just 'bad at art' or underdeveloped, but that there was deeper reasoning as to why this was the case. Brennus of the Senones laughed at Roman idols, and Tacitus informs us that the Germanic people believed it improper to confine deities to human form. Similar attitudes are seen elsewhere amongst the Sarmatians and other Steppe people according to Greco-Roman historians. By the migration period, it had become commonplace to depict deities as very humanlike, perhaps as a result of Roman influence on the 'barbarian' cultures. However, even in early migration period art we see a more abstract way of portraying figures, both animal and human. I like this quote from @Tom_Rowsell regarding the migration period 'Salin' styles of art. "I think that the way the gods are present in the world, the way they reveal themselves, is best explained by the representations in Salin Style I and II. If you spend a long time looking at such art, trying to decipher the hidden figures, faces and animals, then you will acquire the eye that is needed. Pictures speak more than words." (depicted is the Diana of Opfermoor, possibly a 3rd Century Germanic Idol of a goddess from Thuringia.)
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CEO of Niev 🧯🍰
CEO of Niev 🧯🍰@CommonwealthNie·
Christian names: Gabriel Thaddeus Thomas Matthias Modern pagan names: Rakesh Patel Pooja Deepak
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Innes@AnInnes3·
@olothoso @Lakritsiputki @Tom_Rowsell Maybe, but it's not the full story. From the research into DNA projects with Calder Valley associated names you see high %'s of Germanic associated haplogroups suggesting a replacement. (I am from Halifax/Hebden.)
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Ælfred Robertshaw
Ælfred Robertshaw@olothoso·
@Lakritsiputki @Tom_Rowsell @AnInnes3 The Pennine region of West Yorkshire was probably a refugium for defeated Elmetians. In the Calder Valley, place names like Walshaw are Old English placenames referencing that Britons live there. "Celtic" style carved heads can be found carved on vernacular buildings etc
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Innes
Innes@AnInnes3·
I have some sympathy for the English that want to see themselves as Celtic. Anglo-Saxon identity itself did include the native Brythonic population in its definition. Those who first referred to themselves this way were already of British ancestry, as well as Germanic. Germanic derived DNA dominates in most of the country, but the native British ancestry isn't negligible at all. I think haplotardism to an extent is also acceptable here, people with paternal lineages marking them the descendants of the Romano-Britons shouldn't dismiss this fact. But I don't agree with the broad sweeping statement that the English are Celtic, as it's not true for the majority. But I also think there is something noble about a certain kind of Englishman becoming a Welshaboo.
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Innes@AnInnes3·
I've spoken to so many foreigners online, and even the most perfect English speakers are distinctly foreign sounding. Yet English speakers are expected to sound as native as possible when speaking other languages, its a meme.
Percy | 🦁@JeMappellePercy

I’m sorry right but the English language is pronounced terribly by Germans too, like you aren’t morally superior because you’ve gone for the “Brits can’t do other languages!” gag. Like, EZD was trying to celebrate other langs. Glad Sam made his “can you count more” Q look stupid.

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Innes@AnInnes3·
I sympathize with it because I kind of have the opposite thing. I relate to a sense of Germanic Scottishness that isn't the majority in that nation. I don't however make the claim that Scotland itself is Germanic, even though that culture did become prominent in later centuries.
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Innes@AnInnes3·
I stand at roughly 30-33% Irish in terms of genetics. My mother is half-Irish and has an (Anglicized) full Gaelic name, her father was entirely Irish but born in England. Most of his ancestors had lived in England since the famine but never married outside of the tight-nit Catholic Irish community. Liverpool was undeniably a popular place for early Irish immigrants, but certain previously industrial towns were also overrun by Irish newcomers. I don't think there has been any (recent) study on the affects of Irish immigration to these regions in terms of demographics, but I think it'd be an interesting project. I don't particularly relate too much to my Irish heritage, likely because I never truly knew my grandad. It's harder for people born in England to connect to Irish heritage as a result of the increase in popularity of Civic Nationalism in Ireland, and England, as well as the degenerate mindset that comes with being raised in England and English culture when it comes to identity. But that's a bit off topic.
Innes@AnInnes3

Anecdotally my Irish heritage is from Keighly and Halifax, a smaller amount from the Northeast around Newcastle. The two towns mentioned definitely have a wider Irish diaspora and aren't totally unique in the area for it. I'd wager Hull isn't too different either. The Irish have established communities here since the famine. Scots and Welsh have had a smaller impact but not unnoticeable.

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Innes
Innes@AnInnes3·
Anecdotally my Irish heritage is from Keighly and Halifax, a smaller amount from the Northeast around Newcastle. The two towns mentioned definitely have a wider Irish diaspora and aren't totally unique in the area for it. I'd wager Hull isn't too different either. The Irish have established communities here since the famine. Scots and Welsh have had a smaller impact but not unnoticeable.
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Innes@AnInnes3·
@Tom_Rowsell @Hallem808 Irish ancestry is definitely common in the industrial North more widespread than Liverpool. Especially Yorkshire and Lancashire.
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Tom Rowsell
Tom Rowsell@Tom_Rowsell·
The two most Celtic people of England are the Cumbrians (52%) and the Cornish (51%). Cornwall has a population of nearly 600k but only around 110k are ethnic Cornishmen. Cumbria has a population of around 500k - the ethnic Cumbrian population is not recorded but i expect it is similar to Cornwall. If so, the two combined make up approximately 0.34% of England’s population. Using these outliars to define England is unscientific. They are important and interesting cultures but they are not like most ethnic Englishmen.
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