@katyahina_417 It makes the Genocide Route more of a tragedy, in which we enable them into embracing detachment and raw strength, to the point where they can only address themself as an RPG Hero used as a vessel to farm stats.
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Anonymous User
241 posts
They're a CHILD who endured enough abuse to want to commit suicide and then homicide of course they'd get snappy. Little kid wanting revenge on the community that clearly failed them is a harrowing tragedy, not an invitation to hate them. Perfect victim mentality will doom us all
SexiestPotato@Papaenbikini
@dtasriel Chara isn't determined by the player they were already a bad person before us (bullying Asriel, poisoning Asgore and hating humans and wanting revenge in general)
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@dtasriel Chara wasn't "evil", but let's not pretend Asriel wasn't clearly using a euphemism there. Everyone cuts out what he says right after.
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You’d think after the anniversary stream people would realise that line wasn’t Asriel saying they were evil but that he finally realised that Chara wasn’t perfect, they were human, a kid who made dumb mistakes. Asriel after blindly following whatever chara ssid
SexiestPotato@Papaenbikini
@dtasriel People either didn't play Undertale or don't take "they weren't the best person" by Asriel seriously.
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@PAIGEDEADLOCKED @aliracoon @dtasriel Their fall into the Underground was not a suicide attempt.
The ambiguity comes from them climbing a mountain in which it's stated nobody returns from.
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@aliracoon @dtasriel Assuming Chara wasn't abused, they'd still be a mentally unwell child regardless? Their fall to the underground was a suicide attempt and if you don't think it is then you at least know damn well their plan to save monsterkind literally involved them poisoning themself???
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this is so disheartening to victims of abuse, specifically CHILDREN who had lost all their hope in the world they started to hate humans. This behaviour should be fixed as people grow up but chara was a child they never had that chance. Lets treat abuse victims like shit i guess
SexiestPotato@Papaenbikini
@dtasriel Chara isn't determined by the player they were already a bad person before us (bullying Asriel, poisoning Asgore and hating humans and wanting revenge in general)
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@dtasriel @Papaenbikini He goes on to affirm he sees Frisk as the type of friend he had instead of Chara. "Wasn't the greatest person" is clearly a euphemism. Th same way he says he did some "weird things" as a flower.
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@Xuanathame @dtasriel I find it hard to believe that Toby was actively trying to undermine Asriel's trauma here. The scene is supposed to be about Asriel coming to terms with a toxic relationship and finding something meaningful in someone new instead.
Toby is just affirming he likes Chara.
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@dtasriel Its so funny they'd bring up the "Wasn't the best person" line because that moment is so ass that Toby spent the whole anni stream giving constant Chara love and then taking the piss out of the quote when it finally happened. Toby knows Chara deserved better.
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@I_Despise_Red @valoregal @khizdeadlock @dtasriel I have heavy doubts that the "you are wracked with a perverted sentimentality" person is merely 4 years old lol
Why do people keep making them younger and younger to make a point? They are evidently very sophisticated.
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@valoregal @khizdeadlock @dtasriel I guess man, but they were like 4. And probably absurd and suicidal so I can't really blame them for being not-right in the head.
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nana nana boo boo your fave wanted to eradicate entire timelines worth of people and gleefully does so as soon as they're able to pfffflrrrrbbbtt
floradinn chara vessel sansfreak gasters ex gamer@jupitericym00n
> “Chara poisoned asgore” it’s said in the text they mixed up cups of butter with buttercups > “Chara bullied asriel” chara was a child and siblings do that even if it’s not great > “Chara enjoyed no mercy” Charas love is raised in no mercy making them more capable of hurting
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@Justice4Shining @jupitericym00n What Toby is probably trying to imply is that Frisk and Chara save Asriel together, considering they're both sharing the body, and that through saving Asriel, Chara saves themself symbolically.
Also because it would make no sense for Chara's name to be called here in context lol
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@AnonymousU91923 @LazyNick5 to be fair the only time you get the thorn ring is AFTER you already kill all the darkners and noelle STILL freaks out when Berdly is the next enemy so I don’t think the trance excuse works here
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I dont think Noelle and Chara are rully parallels but I do dislike how to argue agaisnt it ppl end up mischaracterizing Noelle. Like she wasnt agaisnt killing the darkners, she had a smile on her face before seeing the last ennemy was berdly. What scares her at first is Kris
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@AnonymousU91923 @LazyNick5 I've checked it, and it stays the same even if you haven't worn the ring on her. Unless we assume that Toby simply didn't take this into account.
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@valoregal Woah woah woah, it's only one timeline worth of people. They're not that bad.
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@LazyNick5 When out of the trance she stops smiling. Then when we force the ThornRing back on in Chapter 4, she's back in the trance, thanks us, and is implied to soon have some kind of pivotal smile moment judging by the ARG.
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@AnonymousU91923 She is only in a trance for about 10 seconds tops
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@UNDERSCOREALT95 Chara is a different type of completionism though. They consider the "see everything" completionism to be indicative of a "perverted sentimentality" toward the game that they don't understand.
Chara completionism is more akin to filling all the crystal slots in the menu.
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Weird route (or another...?) is more fitting. "You're trying to see anything for a possible change" is way more of a fitting circumstance for the demon of completionism to show up.
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The thing with Chara is they're meant to represent a very specific thing, and that's down to their very absolutist personality.
While their apparition is possible in Deltarune, I'm not sure the main route is fitting of those circumstances.
alex 🍁 (comms open)@notsotemmie
Why has everyone accepted Flowey being in Chapter 5. Has everyone unanimously agreed to forget that ASRIEL is in the game, and alive, and well? What am i missing. Why Flowey. Why not CHARA, who is also associated with flowers, and has much more potential for content?
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@Stafki_GTN It's a shame morality discourse is the biggest thing people talk about when it's ultimately a diversion from the actual meta commentary their character exists for.
People also just need to learn to be comfortable liking heavily flawed/problematic characters.
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Chara did nothing wrong and is an innocent smol bean
floradinn chara vessel sansfreak gasters ex gamer@jupitericym00n
> “Chara poisoned asgore” it’s said in the text they mixed up cups of butter with buttercups > “Chara bullied asriel” chara was a child and siblings do that even if it’s not great > “Chara enjoyed no mercy” Charas love is raised in no mercy making them more capable of hurting
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@Devilshadow7211 @jupitericym00n Whoops, pasted the image twice lol
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@Devilshadow7211 @jupitericym00n I don't think it's very productive to separate the two. The Genocide Route is an extreme manifestation of something they valued in life.
It would also just be really strange to make Chara the mouthpiece for this concept if they weren't already tied to it to begin with.
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> “Chara poisoned asgore” it’s said in the text they mixed up cups of butter with buttercups
> “Chara bullied asriel” chara was a child and siblings do that even if it’s not great
> “Chara enjoyed no mercy” Charas love is raised in no mercy making them more capable of hurting
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@The_Charakter @jupitericym00n While this can be the case, the fact that Asriel admits that Frisk is the type of friend he wishes he had over Chara implies that the relationship was fairly toxic. I don't think "bullying" is really a good term for it in general. Things were deeper.
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@jupitericym00n Also "Chara bullies Asriel" comes from the fact that the fandom just cannot accept Asriel can be mean too. In the tape, AZZY is the one who mocks crying to appear more brave. This doesnt HAVE TO come from Charas bullying, becase not only we dont see any examples of that-
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The smaller details are neat as well. Like how Sans will play up his laziness to a comical degree with the sock bit and the "pet rock," while Chara played up their maximization by always filling their water glasses to the brim, or carrying as many flowers as they could.
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The final fight of the Genocide Route is very satisfying, as Chara is being confronted by someone who manages to actually be a difficult enemy despite being the exact opposite of how they define strength.
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It's understated how interesting the Sans and Chara dichotomy is. They're direct narrative foils, with Sans being the ultimate minimalist and Chara being the ultimate maximalist.
They also both have a constant smile while onscreen, which is pretty fun.
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