Atsidas

@ScottyArtz likewise :D great to see you still making amazing stuff all these years later, keep up the fantastic work, brother! 👌

@Atsidas_ Oh wow, that one is ancient! LOL Actually still one of my favorites!

I found an old poll (in thread) from many years ago. At that time, most of my followers were of the smash community and that's definitely not the case this time. I'm interested in knowing how much the demographic has changed now. "I found Scotty Artz from-"

@ScottyArtz I do! it's this one!

@Atsidas_ ayy, I've drawn Krystal a couple times, do you remember which one? :O

I started on OpenCanvas (who remembers that?), but I'm still rocking SAI to this day!

@AleximusPrime I don't think they make one since it would be massive lol

@Atsidas_ Is it taller than the Perfect Zeong?

Dang this was an insane build! Not the perfect version (with legs) but it’s definitely my biggest Gunpla so far! That skirt is all one piece!!

@GFoxlore Well like I already said twice now I'm a Partial Preterest, some things prophesied haven't happened yet fully. I don’t believe the final judgment or the complete everlasting kingdom “has already occurred.” That’s why I’m partial, not full preterist.

Daniel is explicitly about the last days. What do you make of the Judgment being set, and the coming of the everlasting kingdom? Has that already occured? Daniel 12:1 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Paul's second letter to Timothy is generally considered to be of the last of his writings. Most placing it's date of penning around the years 64-65 AD when Paul was imprisoned in Rome. (Paul is writing while imprisoned in Rome, and makes several explicit references to as to such condition.) It is important to note that THIS is the letter in where Paul condemns the teachers Hymeneus, and Philetus. Not before his imprisonment in Rome. During it, in his final days. Now what did Hymeneus and Philetus teach? Full preterism. These "teachers", at the end of the generation that saw christ, are already impatient as to his coming. So much so, that in order to make Christ not a liar (in their own estimation based on the statement: "This generation shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled...") Paul repremands them, accusing them of leading the faith of many astray. The servant of the Almighty, who's task it was to teach the Gospel and clarify theology, who was called by Christ himself on the road to Damascus... it is this Apostle who condemns the teaching so long after the crucifixion of the ever merciful God. It was a mere five years at most after Paul's penning of the epistle to Timothy, that Jerusalem was destroyed. The armies of the Roman empire seiged the city and ransacked it, fulfilling the words of Christ: "Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." Yet, after the destruction of Jerusalem, and the martyrdom of Paul, Christ appears to John in vision on the isle of Patmos, saying: "Behold I come quickly, and My reward with Me, to give unto every one according to his work." Why is it that Christ tells tells John that he comes quickly? Why does John believe, and repeat that Christ is coming? Why is it that 25 years after the sacking of Jerusalem, and over sixty years after Christ's death, that the Apostle exiled on Patmos still awaits the coming of the Lord? The desire to declare that the ressurection and second coming has already happened, simply to resolve what many feel makes Christ seem like a liar otherwise, runs in the face of the writing and teaching of those DIRECTLY CALLED BY THE LORD JESUS HIMSELF. It is an act of theological hubris, anda taking away from the words of the prophecy in the book the revelation. Those who do so, do not have their name written in the book of life. To the contrary, their part is taken away from the book of life, the holy city, and the promises in the book of the Revelation of our Lord given to his apostle John.

Ah its the other Daniel thing, gotcha gotcha! So, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're saying is that because the day-year principle is applied in 9 then it must also be applied in 7? If that's the case then I would say that it again comes down to the internal context. Daniel 9 applies it because it must be in order for the prophecy to make sense, and has to work that way for the time to line up with Christ and his death. Daniel 7, as mirrored in Revelation, is a foreshadowing of the destruction of Jerusalem, showing that even that far back how everything would play out was known and prophesied about. Not applying the day-year has everything line up perfectly with historical events once again. Time, times and half time, 3 and a half years (siege of Jerusalem from 67 AD to 70 AD). Fits the exact historical window of the Roman siege, the mirroring of Revelation later, it all slots into place.

Alright, the crux of the matter is that Revelation directly mirrors Daniel exactly. The period of 1260 days is in reference to the 4th beast. of Daniel, and the Daniel 7: 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Revelation 13: And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

I believe contextually Rev 11 refers to the earthly temple, overtly meaning the one in Jerusalem, and other times clearly meaning the Heavenly one. "I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months." Given that gentiles and Rome can't trample over a heavenly temple, it has to mean the earthly one as Rome laid siege to Jerusalem and sacked it. Holy City refers to Jerusalem as well, as referred to a few verses later in verse 8 ("where their Lord was crucified"). This would have to place it before the temple fell in 70 AD, yes? I also mentioned Nero and Rome prior, which, again, would be the beast mentioned (Nero's death being the wound) and how the beast dominated the world (Rome's domination). Yes, the numbers repeat across Daniel and Revelation but context and genre matter. Daniel 9 explicitly uses “seventy weeks” in a clear chronological prophecy about Christ’s arrival, death, and the destruction of the city and sanctuary. Revelation uses plain “days” and “months” in a book saturated with “soon,” “near,” “must shortly come to pass,” and “the time is at hand.” The 42 months line up exactly with the Roman siege of Jerusalem (roughly 3½ years, AD 67–70). The day-year principle fits Daniel 9 because the text itself signals it. Applying it to Revelation ignores the book’s own internal signals of imminence for its first-century readers.

@Atsidas_ The context of the book? Explain. (Also, the numbers repeat exactly, several times across both books... that in itself is context.)

Ah I see so the crux of your argument is based on when Rev was written. I believe it was pre 70AD, given the context of the book itself, which then shows every time mentioned match up perfectly with events written of. Applying the chronology usage from Daniel (weeks mean years ego every mention of time must be longer than literally written) across every instance of timelines being mentioned ignores overt context.

Revelation and Daniel share chronology though. Their numbers must be the same. (Revelation, according to the early Church fathers, was written ~90 AD, toward the end of Domitian's reign, AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem.) John is not speaking to past events in prophecy. That is not how prophecy works.

I think you misread a little; I said the beast was Rome as well, but Nero was also a part of that (the head that was wounded), so I don't think we even disagree on most of what you posted here from what I understand. Is the only disagreement then how certain prophetic times are applied (days weeks years) and how they line up? Consistency is important I agree, and I apply a consistency of context. Daniel 9 uses the weeks but its typically agreed upon that he did mean years, as the timeline explicitly lines up with with the crucifixion of Christ and then the following destruction of Jerusalem. The 1260 days used in Revelation easily matches up with the amount of time Rome besieged Jerusalem and destroyed it as well (3 1/2 years or 1260 days, 42 months). In both examples of prophetic timelines they end up, looking through the context of both the scriptures therein and the historical events around them, reconcile. Daniel uses weeks in a context where it means years. Revelation uses days and months in a context of "soon, near, and this generation".

I am attacking full preterism. Prophetic chronology is HIGHLY important. Otherwise, the 70 weeks prophecy is no longer predictive. End-times prophecy repeats the same them of numbers (in terms of time) for events. Either those are literal numbers of days, or they are years. You cannot choose otherwise and form a consistent theology. The issue again, comes with tying the destruction of Jerusalem to the end of prophetic chronology. As for the beasts. They mirror Daniel, one comes after the other. Nero, is not the beast himself. Rome is (Following the line of succession in Daniel), more to the point, the persecution lasts 1260 (times time and half a time, or 42 months) years. (Again, this issue being forced by the fulfilment of the 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel, which necessitates a day symbolizing a year). Revelation 12: And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

True, but I believe contextually Rev 11 refers to the earthly temple, with some overtly meaning the one in Jerusalem, and other times meaning the Heavenly one. "I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months." Given that gentiles and Rome can't trample over a heavenly temple, it has to mean the earthly one as Rome laid siege to Jerusalem and sacked it. Holy City refers to Jerusalem as well, as referred to a few verses later in verse 8.

That’s not an earthly temple. The same word ~naos~ is used here: For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His sanctuary (naos -temple); and He who sits on the throne will dwell over them. — Revelation 7:15 And at the end of the chapter: And the sanctuary of God which is in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His sanctuary, and there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm. — Revelation 11:19

I believe firmly in the consistency of prophetic interpretation throughout the entire bible wherein there is a precedent of apocalyptic imagery being used to foreshadow earthly happenings (Isaiah 13:10, Ezekiel 32:7-8, a few others as well). Revelation is the capstone on the timeline of Israel, as from the start of the OT to the end of the NT it shows their creation, their folly and sin, and the utter and complete ruination in the final book of the NT. Same for me goes for a the times when literal numbers are used, as we see in the historical context of the time, specific numbers were used to convey ideas rather than the literal amount. 70x7 doesn't mean only forgive 490 times, but in essence its unlimited. I also believe that the language used from both Christ and other NT written works have a specific imminence and urgency to the listeners or receivers of those words in the time, and pushing all that to futurism does a disservice to the language used and devalues the warnings Christ, Paul etc were giving people about the horrors they would soon face. The beasts, or the beast, is often attributed to Nero and Rome, who was a great persecutor of early Christians. "In ancient times, letters had numerical values (gematria). The Greek name "Nero Caesar" transliterated into Hebrew as נרון קסר (Neron Kaisar) adds up exactly to 666". Tracks as well when Nero committed suicide, and yet Rome continued from that point to still persecute Christians after he passed. Rev 13:3" One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast." The destruction of the earthly temple is the finality of the old covenant, and the tribulations Jerusalem went through is also the finality of the curses spoken of in Deuteronomy, utter destruction and horrors for failing to uphold their end of the covenant and being scattered. God's new temple endures and does not need a physical stone on stone place or location as we are all now a part of it, imo. I should also reiterate that there are two schools of Preterism and they often get lumped into the same group, unfortunately, if you were unaware (I might be wrong in that assumption!). I'm a Partial Preterest, I believe much of what was spoken of has happened but there is also still more to come. Full Preterests believe full stop that literally everything already happened, and I don't I agree with that view.

A) Repetition of 1260 days, a number which occures in Daniel, and if taken as literal days, messes with the chronology of messianic prophecy. B) The beasts, are they literal beasts? Or is are they symbolic? Is the temple a departure from the symbolism? C) Same chapter refers to "God's temple in heaven" later.

@ShitpostRock2 Blacklight has ways of playing multiplayer today thankfully

@KinglyPancakes worse still is seeing "followed by" and it's friends

@AlluPatronia @KinglyPancakes thank you :D

@Atsidas_ @KinglyPancakes Awesome

@Marxon1134x the way they and JWs twist everything to justify the holes in their theology is fascinating

Took me literally 15 minutes of research to debunk the LDS gospel of Joseph Smith as satanic deception. 15 minutes of barely having to research. And people, follow this?

Corinthians 11:14 “And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.” Joseph Smith describes Angel Moroni as a literal "angel of light" Pretty damning if you ask me.

The drive is back, and I'm ready to rock, but let's take it easy this time around. Only 5 Slots available! :D