IsReligionLegit

I would never tell you your religion is wrong, but shouldn’t you want to do the research to make sure it is right? If you don’t go after it with an open mind, then you become the textbook definition of ignorance.

@Truth_matters20 The Bible was written by man, edited by man, and authenticated by man. It is perfect.

Every time.

@1789_georg77009 @beard_pool76 @oliverburdick That is an interesting take. I am a human, a sinner, but when I put pen to paper I am speaking for God? I am not arguing against it, but that seems incredibly presumptive.

@beard_pool76 @BniceJustShare @oliverburdick Paul was infallible when writing. His writings as are infallible as the gospels are

“Did God really say women aren’t permitted to preach, or was that just the Apostle Paul?”

@sapientiaetamor @oliverburdick Funny thing is that is exactly what we are trying to do here. Be humble, have open and honest discussions.

@BniceJustShare @oliverburdick You literally don't know what you're talking about. Humble yourself and study the Word. Seek God's face in the place of prayer and repent. If you think God is pleased to hear you malign a man who has His favor 10,000,000x over what you'll ever have, think again.

@JamesTr39114525 @oliverburdick Never disputed that. We are talking about Paul, a man, telling the church how to behave almost 2000 years later. My point is that maybe we should take into consideration today that Paul was a man, he wasn’t God.

@BniceJustShare @oliverburdick And Jesus is still alive.

@JamesTr39114525 @oliverburdick Agreed. But your original statement was that Jesus vouched for Paul. How is this possible?

@BniceJustShare @oliverburdick Luke wrote his Gospel and the book of Acts while traveling with Paul. Paul was executed in 64AD in Rome. He wrote by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and interacted with many eyewitnesses. Nothing he wrote was incorrect, including the conversion of Paul.

@Kealnt7 @oliverburdick So now you are speaking for God? My only point was that Paul is human, a sinner, and his words should not be taken at the same level as Gods words.

@BniceJustShare @oliverburdick Yeah God really blew it huh, “Oh no Paul is speaking for me and there is nothing I can do about it…. My eternal plan and purpose is absolutely lost now.”

True, and you are kind of helping me make my point. Paul, a man, dictated much of what the modern day church accepts as Gods will. Pauls words in the New Testament are typically honored in the same way God and Jesus’ actual words are. Paul was an amazing human, chosen by God. But he was human, which means he made mistakes. My concern is that today we do everything because Paul said so, and we consider his words Gods words. That seems like a stretch, and might be worth taking a closer look at.

@BniceJustShare @oliverburdick Except he wrote the vast majority of the New Testament 😂🤣😅 And was personally sought out by God. But other than those two big giant factors nah doesn't belong. 😂😂

Thank you for that very well thought out response, I do so appreciate it. And I agree with you. The original question was about Paul telling women they couldn’t be leaders in ministry. It is these statements which have been adopted as absolute truths by many that concern me. My only point is that Paul is human, and he could have gotten it wrong. I don’t like the fact that we hold Pauls every word at the level of God and Jesus’ actual words. If it is “in the Bible “ then it is absolute and from God. Paul dictated a lot of details and how to’s about the church. I wonder if any of these absolutes were mission critical then why didn’t Jesus talk about it. My only point is that we should think about giving weight to different statements and absolutes based on who said it and in what context. As you will see from most of the comments here, most people are unable or unwilling to even discuss possibilities or abnormalities, everything is accepted without any question or discussion. I was admittedly once one of those people, not any more.

I understand your point, but I think Paul’s letters belong in Scripture precisely because his message was rooted in Christ and confirmed by the other apostles.Paul himself said in Galatians 1:11-12 that the Gospel he preached was not taught to him by man, but came “by the revelation of Jesus Christ.” His encounter with Christ on the road to Damascus wasn’t ordinary he was specifically chosen and sent to preach to the Gentiles (Acts 9:15).Even Peter acknowledged Paul’s writings in 2 Peter 3:15-16, where he referred to them alongside “the other Scriptures.” That’s a huge statement coming from one of the original apostles. And regarding Paul clashing with Peter in Galatians 2, it wasn’t because Paul was against the truth. Peter had started withdrawing from Gentile believers out of fear of certain Jewish brethren, even after God had already shown that salvation was for both Jews and Gentiles. Paul corrected him because the Gospel was being compromised by hypocrisy. The apostles were still human, yes, but being human doesn’t cancel divine inspiration. Moses, David, Elijah, and even Peter himself had flaws too, yet God still spoke through them. The focus should be whether the message aligned with Christ, and Paul’s teachings consistently pointed back to Jesus, grace, faith, holiness, and salvation.

@JamesTr39114525 @oliverburdick I have. And Acts was written by Luke, 30-60 years after Jesus was crucified.

@BniceJustShare @oliverburdick Read all of Acts 9, Acts 18:9-10, and Acts 23:11, for starters.

@JamesTr39114525 @oliverburdick I wasn’t aware that Jesus spoke of Paul. Paul was Saul when Jesus was alive, how did you make that connection?

@BniceJustShare @oliverburdick Jesus Christ disagrees with you. He said Paul is His chosen vessel to bear His name before Gentiles, kings and the children of Israel-Acts 9:15. Peter affirmed Paul's apostleship and said that his letters are Scripture-2nd Peter 3:15-16.

I absolutely and completely agree with you. This conversation started on Pauls declaration that women are not to preach within the church. My point is simply that Paul was human, humans make mistakes. Everything Paul said in the Bible is treated as if God himself said it. I think that is a bit of a leap. Paul clashed with James (Jesus’ brother) and Peter on issues of how the church should be. It is clear that man had a say, because if it was all straight from God then Paul wouldn’t have clashed with 2 of the original 12 disciples.

Paul never told anyone to believe him simply because he was Paul. He constantly pointed people back to the revelation and calling he received from Christ Himself. In Galatians 1:11-12, Paul clearly said the Gospel he preached was “not of man” but received through the revelation of Jesus Christ. His encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus wasn’t hidden either Acts 9:15 shows God specifically chose and sent him to preach to the Gentiles. Also, inspiration does not mean a man suddenly stops being human or incapable of mistakes. Moses made mistakes, David sinned, Peter denied Christ, yet God still used them. The power was never in the perfection of the vessel, but in the God who spoke through them. Even Peter acknowledged Paul’s writings alongside other Scriptures in 2 Peter 3:15-16. So the question is not whether Paul was human he was. The question is whether God can speak through imperfect men. The entire Bible already answers that.

James and Paul disagreed on how circumcision should be handled with Christians going forward. Paul went his way, against Jesus’ own brother and one of the 12 disciples. Later Paul and Peter went at it in regards to table fellowship. When you say they were all the mouthpieces of God, then why was their disagreement? Paul had no problem pushing back against the original 12. Was God with Paul but not James and Peter?

@BniceJustShare @sapientiaetamor @oliverburdick God spoke to the Prophets, not the people 🤦🏻‍♂️. The prophets were God’s mouthpieces (voice). Hence the apostles were God’s mouthpieces.

James and Paul disagreed on how circumcision should be handled with Christians going forward. Paul went his way, against Jesus’ own brother and one of the 12 disciples. Later Paul and Peter went at it in regards to table fellowship. When you say they were all the mouthpieces of God, then why was their disagreement? Paul had no problem pushing back against the original 12. Was God with Paul but not James and Peter?

@BniceJustShare @oliverburdick You must not believe Peter or even James because they certainly affirmed him being an Apostle

It goes back to the original question on the post. Are women allowed to preach? Paul said no, Jesus never addressed it. Jesus actually sought out and elevated the women around him. The reason why Paul is different than many of the other people in the Bible for me is that Paul set the rules for the church. Rules that are strictly enforced today in many denominations .

@1789_georg77009 @BniceJustShare @oliverburdick I’ve always heard it as his writings were inspired by God. Not that he was at the same level. Plenty of folks in the Bible had their words described as being divinely inspired.

I also don’t believe Paul thought he was infallible. I think he was a true servant of God and every letter he wrote he did with a pure heart and pure intentions. I also wonder if when he wrote those letters to the churches if he had any idea that 1000’s of years later his words would be treated the same as direct words from God and Jesus. My bet is that would have freaked him out if you told him, and he would have advised us today to lower the purity of his words below God and Jesus.

@1789_georg77009 @BniceJustShare @oliverburdick Of course the concept is. I think we can all agree on that. I meant no one says Paul himself was.

Agreed, the Bible is full of sinners. But Pauls words are there and modern Christianity treats every word as gospel. I have never seen anyone make a distinction between Jesus’ words and Pauls words, they are treated as the same because they are in the Bible. Entire sermons have been preached on just a few words Paul has said. The original question was about a rule Paul had stated and whether that was from God. My opinion is that Paul was not infallible, therefore when Paul states that something should be a certain way it shouldn’t necessarily be taken as the 11th commandment. We don’t know if that came directly from God, or was just part of his sermon. There is also an argument that if these rules or ways of doing things were so critical why didn’t Jesus share them. Paul set many of the parameters for how a church is to function, and while he was a sensational human, he was still human.

@1789_georg77009 @BniceJustShare @oliverburdick First, being in the Bible doesn’t mean he is perfect or infallible. Not at all. There are tons of people in the Bible and no such claim has ever been made.

In the Old Testament God speaks directly to the people. Gospels of the NT Jesus’ words and actions are being recorded. Then later Paul becomes the churches first pastor, writing letters and preaching. I am not saying Paul wasn’t sent by God, inspired by God, or anything else. But I question putting Pauls words in the Bible as scripture right beside the direct words of God and Jesus. That means that Paul was infallible, not human, and not a sinner. Paul wasn’t perfect, he was human just like us, and he made mistakes. I believe that Pauls words are important, just as the words of your pastor last Sunday are important. But the question above was about taking Pauls words and making them Gods words, and I think that is questionable. I am not saying he did not get that from God, but I don’t understand how you can say that he did.

@oliverburdick It was Paul, and he was the worlds first preacher. He didn’t speak for God and has no business being in the Bible.

In the Old Testament God speaks directly to the people. Gospels of the NT Jesus’ words and actions are being recorded. Then later Paul becomes the churches first pastor, writing letters and preaching. I am not saying Paul wasn’t sent by God, inspired by God, or anything else. But I question putting Pauls words in the Bible as scripture right beside the direct words of God and Jesus. That means that Paul was infallible, not human, and not a sinner. Paul wasn’t perfect, he was human just like us, and he made mistakes. I believe that Pauls words are important, just as the words of your pastor last Sunday are important. But the question above was about taking Pauls words and making them Gods words, and I think that is questionable. I am not saying he did not get that from God, but I don’t understand how you can say that he did.

@BniceJustShare @oliverburdick Regardless of how you feel about the topic, saying Paul doesn’t belong in the Bible is totally insane.

In the Old Testament God speaks directly to the people. Gospels of the NT Jesus’ words and actions are being recorded. Then later Paul becomes the churches first pastor, writing letters and preaching. I am not saying Paul wasn’t sent by God, inspired by God, or anything else. But I question putting Pauls words in the Bible as scripture right beside the direct words of God and Jesus. That means that Paul was infallible, not human, and not a sinner. Paul wasn’t perfect, he was human just like us, and he made mistakes. I believe that Pauls words are important, just as the words of your pastor last Sunday are important. But the question above was about taking Pauls words and making them Gods words, and I think that is questionable. I am not saying he did not get that from God, but I don’t understand how you can say that he did.

@BniceJustShare @oliverburdick Paul wrote 12 and maybe fourteen books of the Bible , I think God used Him to get out to us what He wanted from the Church.

In the Old Testament God speaks directly to the people. Gospels of the NT Jesus’ words and actions are being recorded. Then later Paul becomes the churches first pastor, writing letters and preaching. I am not saying Paul wasn’t sent by God, inspired by God, or anything else. But I question putting Pauls words in the Bible as scripture right beside the direct words of God and Jesus. That means that Paul was infallible, not human, and not a sinner. Paul wasn’t perfect, he was human just like us, and he made mistakes. I believe that Pauls words are important, just as the words of your pastor last Sunday are important. But the question above was about taking Pauls words and making them Gods words, and I think that is questionable. I am not saying he did not get that from God, but I don’t understand how you can say that he did.

@BniceJustShare @oliverburdick Then you're also rejecting the Apostle Peter and every Apostle of the early church. Peter put Paul's epistles on the level of Scripture. 2 Peter 3:16 If you think you have earned the right in Heaven to speak over Paul, you are beyond delusional.