@c_cennen97 I got blocked on the other post. I won't bother you too much with this. Just wanted to finish the conversation.
I interpret both Princes as Messiah. Even tho Rome destroyed the city, it was because of the Jews transgressions. The Jews were the people of the Prince.
Explanation about the 70th week of Daniel.
In the book of Daniel we read a remarkable prophecy, 'the revelation concerning the seventy weeks' (Daniel 9). Here we are dealing with a clearly 'fixed period of time', the beginning of which is relatively easy to determine. A week consists of 7 units. We usually speak of seven days. But you can also choose another unit, as the Lord God has done here. The unit is now not a day but a year, we also speak of weeks of years. So we get a period of 7 times 70 weeks of years is 490 years.
We can place these weeks of years somewhere on the line of history, but where? They can be included with the dates in our history books, but with which ones? A fascinating passage of the Bible.
PURPOSE
Why does the Lord God speak through Daniel about this period and especially: what is God's purpose with this time? We read that from Daniel 9:24 'Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy'.
The word 'for' stands out. This word indicates the purpose for which that period of 70 weeks of years has been determined and is important. In that period of 490 years the Lord God will tackle things in a fundamental way. What is also striking is the completeness of that approach. The things that God wants to do in that period of 490 years are not left half-finished, as sometimes happens with our efforts. The Lord God completes His work, He finishes things. For example, we see, and how wonderful that is, that transgression and sin will be brought to an end, it is finished, reconciled. In addition, we see how 'everlasting righteousness' is brought. Aren't those wonderful things? Today we still live in a time when sin and unrighteousness destroy people's lives. Today we see how much unrighteousness still goes on in the world and also that there is little and seemingly less justice found. The Lord God promises to change that and in that period of 490 years. We may look forward to the fulfillment of that word. Is that something for us?
DANIEL PROPHETS OF JESUS
Daniel was an exile, as a young boy he was taken into exile with others to Babylon. The Lord God prophesies about that situation and what will happen to the people of Daniel. So it is not about the church or the world powers but about God's people, about Israel. Daniel prophesies about the downfall of Babylon. It was Cyrus or Kores, as we know him from the Bible, who as a new ruler began to reorganize the Persian-Median empire, that was the new empire that became superior after Babylon. He divided the empire into provinces with their own governor (called satrap). The different peoples were encouraged to preserve their own culture and religion and it is in that context that the Jews were allowed to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple. These things take shape under the prophets Ezra and Nehemiah. After a period of 7 and 62 weeks of years (Daei 9:25) an anointed one will be cut off. We are now about 483 years (69 x 7 year-weeks) further and are at the beginning of our era. It is not difficult to recognize the Lord Jesus in the description of verse 26. He is the Messiah of God, which means the Anointed One of God. Messiah = Christ = Anointed One). We also know what kind of play was performed and how rigged everything was around His trial. There was nothing against Him, yet He was exterminated, crucified. Isn't it breathtaking to realize: all this was prophesied by Daniel, while he had lived many hundreds of years earlier. Yes, God's Word is certain and certain.
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@TheBelieverJC@c_cennen97 I love Bible study. Did you know that the Prince of Daniel 9.26 is capitalized in the original 1611 KJV? Why it was changed, I do not know. Are all changes good? No, not necessarily. How would you read Daniel 9.24-27 in that light?
@TheBelieverJC@c_cennen97 Watch the videos to get the explanations. Worst case scenario you learn how to deal with crazy historicist and also learn about what the church has been through for the last 2000 years. It is truly by the Grace of God that his Word has made it to today.
@TheBelieverJC@c_cennen97 Is this the first time you've heard a historical point of view on prophecy? You should check out David Wilcoxson's video studies on YouTube. Same guy I linked to earlier. He has great commentaries and pulls from many great theologians.
@TheBelieverJC@UnhingedMuppets@c_cennen97 It's not my own interpretation. This is pretty common teaching held by the reformers. You can find additional commentaries by John Gill, Adam Clarke, Geneva Bible study notes, and Isaac Newton to name a few. I don't agree with all their teaching but do on most prophecy.
@TheBelieverJC@UnhingedMuppets@c_cennen97 Messiah was cut off. Crucified. But not for himself. For the world. To make an end of sins and make reconciliation for iniquity. Which he did in the 70th week. Nothing there about a time gap. Fulfilled on time in exacting detail further strengthening the authority of the Word.
Many people want to make salvation a reward due to us for meeting a set of conditions, rather than a free gift received by faith.
Folks, Jesus met all the conditions for us, so trust He’s done all the work.
@TheBelieverJC@UnhingedMuppets@c_cennen97 There is nothing in the Bible that talks of an interruption of prophecy. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Everlasting covenant. It makes no sense and diminishes his resurrection to say that any people group is going back under the law.
The cut-off after the 69th week by the crucifixion of Jesus, has Israel temporarily "set aside" or put into a state of spiritual blindness. The 70th week of Daniel is the beginning of the seven years of tribulation. Jacob's trouble means Israel, so it 70th weeks is for Israel. We are Between Week 69 en 70 God gathered a People from the Gentiles for His Name Acts 15:14.
@TheBelieverJC@UnhingedMuppets@c_cennen97 From the commandment to Messiah was 69weeks. Messiah started his ministry at the beginning of the 70th week. It's all right there. Just as Daniel recorded the prophecy. Nowhere in the Bible is a time gap discussed. This prophecy PROVES the deity of Christ! It's amazing!
Until the Messiah, the Prince, seven weeks and two are sixty weeks. It will be restored and rebuilt, both street and moat, but in the distress of times.
Verse 25 now deals with details of the prophecy. The first part has seven weeks of the year; that is 49 years. The second part covers 62 weeks of years. That's 434 years, bringing the total to 483 years. On balance, we will then be one year week (seven years) short to complete the 70 weeks. This last week is disconnected from the remaining 69 weeks.
@BobCornPop@TheBelieverJC@c_cennen97 I honestly think that we are both getting lost in the weeds about how we are interpreting these parts of scripture and applying them to our understanding of His Word, Bob.
I would suggest agreeing to disagree, if that is okay with you.
@BobCornPop@TheBelieverJC@c_cennen97 Okay.
I disagree, but I just simply believe otherwise.
Personally this is fine - brothers in Christ are allowed to not agree on non doctrinal issues.
I appreciate the civil discussion, sir.
@TheBelieverJC@UnhingedMuppets@c_cennen97 "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off...."
True. He was cut off in the middle of the 70th week. Which is after the 69th week. He confirmed the Everlasting covenant for many during the 70th week. After which the Gospel message went to the whole world!
@UnhingedMuppets@TheBelieverJC@c_cennen97 Jesus qualified his reading of Isaiah because up and to that point it had been. He didn't read the following verses because they had not happened. It would be though when God's judgement was handed down to unbelieving Israel in 70 AD.
@UnhingedMuppets@TheBelieverJC@c_cennen97 There is no unresolved bit. The 70th week came after the 69th week. The prophecy ran its course just as it was given to Daniel.