Peasant Philosopher

That is not true of the re-industrialization crowd.. They discuss the shortage of experienced machinists, and factory workers.. Remember what Trump said about that plant that got busted with having illegal labor from Korea in their battery factory? He essentially said that we needed the foreign talent in order to train their domestic replacements. This discourse is long standing..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy I would also love to see us grow skilled trades domestically again but that’s not what “high-skilled immigration” discourse is around. The pitchforks are being raised surrounding degree based STEM roles.

You can bitch and moan about high-skilled immigration all you want, but at the end of the day we have to give all the good jobs to foreigners. Otherwise we might someday get conquered by a foreign country, and then they’d give all the good jobs to foreigners.

@just_in_brown @romanhelmetguy We definitely have enough coders/computer science people.. What we don't have is experienced machinists in sufficient quantities. It isn't a talent shortage, it is a skills, and investment shortage imo.. "Skilled labor" covers a lot of territory..

We produce the graduates. We have the programs. The bottleneck is entry level hiring. New grads can’t compete with junior level foreign hires for ENTRY level roles. And as of late, when they don’t land that first job, their career stalls early, and that feedback loop eventually discourages more students from even entering the pipeline. Our kids are going into tremendous debt only to have adults from the world over skip them in line.

Make the main focus of primary school home economics again, and basic literacy.. Turn secondary schools into trade schools for the majority of students, with college prep available only to gifted students.. Send only gifted students to college for STEM.. I'm not saying we necessarily need to increase spending, just not waste our education spending like is currently done.. Existing education is glorified childcare, students barely learn anything.. So yeah we need vast education reform..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy Ok my bait was that we spend *vastly* more money than China for the mediocre results we achieve, but what is your definition of investing in education if you agree with me money isn't the issue?

I don't think the amount of spending is the issue.. If everyone that graduated with some useless degree from a four year college had instead went to trade school, and learned skills that are actually in demand that would have been better.. If you want to save money just convert high schools into trade school programs.. Spend existing funds in a better way.. The past thirty years of education have been a massive malinvestment imo..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy So you're saying we should match China's spending on education? Because I'd take that deal.

Je parle espagnol à Dieu, anglais aux marchands, italien aux dames, français aux hommes et allemand à mon cheval. Charles Quint

They haven't been outsourcing their manufacturing for thirty years.. They don't have a shortage of machinists because they didn't send all those jobs to another country.. I agree ultimately, I hope we bring the jobs back, and invest in the nations youth. But tell that to the elites..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy Oddly, the CCP isn't poaching any "talent" from the subcontinent, so I think we can pass on doing so ourselves.

Probably not well, but you do understand the concept of wage arbitrage don't you? If you can poach a worker that another society paid to train up, and pay them a fraction of wages a native coder, or engineer would charge, than maybe you can increase your profits substantially even if their output is worse..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy And how has Indiamaxxing worked for the UK and Canada?

@Dbob_77 @romanhelmetguy China didn't spend the last thirty years outsourcing manufacturing jobs did they? Know they in fact were investing heavily in manufacturing while western elites were getting rich on financial engineering, and wage arbitrage..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy This is you:

Usually the amount of skilled machinists in the country is proportional to the amount of machining jobs. When the amount of those jobs on the market decreases workers migrate to other sectors, and their skills degrade.. And the older generation is retiring out without having trained a replacement. I agree with you in coding, and computer science stuff US citizens were replaced by foreigners that were brought in, but the lack of skilled machinists is more an artifact of outsourced manufacturing..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy This is predicated on the idea that the US didn't have 400k qualified people to fill those jobs. All to frequently, the jobs are held by US citizens, who are then forced to train their foreign replacements.

@illegal0pinions @romanhelmetguy If they are lying, which is possible, they are doing so because they prefer slaves to free citizens. In which case our country is in deeper shit than a skills shortage..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy They are lying to you. There is no shortage, and the foreign labor is far worse in every way than the vast amount of talent here already. It’s a scam. Please wake up this isn’t complicated and those involved in these industries have known how this works for 4+ decades

@mad_muppet @romanhelmetguy Did I mention the valley, or the Bay Area.. I don't think I did, I'm referring to the people trying to re industrialize the US, who need machinists, and such..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy There is absolutely NOTHING going on in the Valley or the Bay Area which is vital to either national security or national economic parity. These are both cult driven fantasies on the brink of collapse. You’re running out of Kool-Aid.

I follow I lot of the engineers, and ceos on here that are re industrializing, and they themselves complain that there is shortage of skilled makers. That isn't a reflection of the talent base.. It is a reflection of the incentive structure created by the boomer rush to ship all manufacturing to China, and import coders from India that they can easily exploit..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy The point is that clearly doesn’t stop them from being more capable and skilled and productive and innovative and moral in real time than any of the faux skilled foreigners. So it doesn’t matter. Even given subpar education US white males are the cream of the crop

@illegal0pinions @romanhelmetguy Imagine how amazing they would be if they didn't have to go through an education system that keeps them unproductive for 18 years, and quite provably makes them more retarded than if they were homeschooled for example..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy Underinvested is a strange term. They are by far the most capable and productive demographic in the world. They have been frozen out of and replaced in many industries. Take our defense industry as counter example. Highest % white male demo of any innovation industry we have…

@AlexStepherylh @romanhelmetguy Skilled labor would be more expensive if what you suggest were done.. That is a cost.. Training people is also a cost.. These costs would reduce short term profits..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy No investments are necessary. Send them home. Give them 6 months to train their replacements. Allow maybe 10,000 exceptions and let companies bid on those slots. Whoever pays the most gets a visa to keep one of their foreign workers.

@illegal0pinions @romanhelmetguy It is a fact though that public schools have been a joke for a long time.. And boomers removed shop class, and home economics from schools.. The male white population obviously is very capable, but has been underinvested in, from my perspective at least..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy There is a practically endless supply of much higher skilled labor in the male US white population than anywhere else on earth. It really isn’t close

@AlexStepherylh @romanhelmetguy I think that could work as long as they, the corpos, and government decide they want to make the necessary investments.. I would even agree that is the right thing to do, but there are more short term profits from just importing skilled labor..

You don’t have to do that. Just get rid of the foreign labor and foreign students. Wage increases will drive more people into those fields. It takes the Navy 15 months to take someone from boot camp to working on a nuclear submarine. We have the talent and they can be trained quickly.

The competition is for a share of global manufacturing.. Especially high value added manufacturing.. The country that wins the competition gets to have the larger middle class.. Manufacturing build the middle class.. Devil advocate again, maybe importing skilled labor could be justified by being seen as securing industry, and jobs for future US citizens.. Personally I would prefer they just train citizens..

@DataloreT @romanhelmetguy What are we competing for? What does winning this 'competition' even mean if its not us doing the winning?