Scott Snodgress

This isn’t an off handed comment from Piper. He has taught and defended this distinction for decades: justification is by faith alone, but final salvation/glorification is not. He made it explicit in his 2017 Desiring God article (“we are saved through that fruit and that faith”) and doubled down in the 2018 Ask Pastor John podcast (“We are justified by faith alone but we are not ultimately saved by faith alone”). The same framework appears in his teaching as far back as 2006. If “through” applied to works concerns you when someone says “because of,” it should here too. Ephesians 2:8 uses that exact preposition for the instrument of salvation: saved by grace “through” faith. Scripture does not apply it to fruit.

I think his phrasing is imprecise and is in need of clarification. It comes across as cryptic. I think too it has resulted in needless controversy. If he was pressed I dare say he would acknowledge that all rewards received are of grace and not merited. He is careful to say 'through' and not 'because of'. But if he were to say that we are saved because of rather than through works then I'd have an issue. Like faith in regards to justification, faith exercised through works sanctifies first by strengthening that faith, and secondly by increasing our sensitivity to sin and how offensive it is to God. It is a means that God uses and works through us to purge sin and to prepare us for entrance into his glorious presence. Such works are only acceptable based on Christ's atonement as the typical sacrifices in Leviticus declare. The reward is a gracious bestowal upon us, as Jesus reminds us in the Sermon on the Mount. Of late I've been seeing posts that declare works do nothing but provide evidence. This truncates their purpose and glosses over those passages that Scriptures have to say beyond evidences. Nevertheless, Sola Fide.

What are your thoughts about John Piper?

I appreciate the detailed reply. My point is specifically about Piper’s language on final salvation. He says we are “saved through that fruit and that faith” at the last judgment and also states “we are not ultimately saved by faith alone.” Even if the fruit is non-meritorious and produced by grace, the phrasing makes the sanctifying fruit instrumental (“through that fruit”) in final salvation/glorification. If it’s purely evidential and guaranteed by perseverance, why not just say the fruit confirms genuine faith rather than that we are saved through it? I would love to hear your response to this.

Works plays no part whatsoever in our justification, it's entirely based on the imputation of Christ's righteousness received by faith. That imputation not only pardons but removes the guild to sin. Through works done in faith (and it's important to stress that such works are done in faith for whatever is not done in faith is sin), that righteousness of Christ's through sanctification expresses itself in how we behave. Such works do not make salvation synergistic. Paul makes it clear that works lead to salvation but not by merit, "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." Philippians 2:12-13 (LSB). We are to put to death the sin within us that we may become what we already are. (to use an expression by Martyn Lloyd-Jones). Romans 6. But this working out can only be done by God's enabling grace, who prepares the path that we are to walk in, this not only prescriptively but decretively gives us the will to do it and enables us to do. “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.” Eph. 2:10 Paul writes that there are consequences for those who while justified do little to demonstrate that faith, "For no one can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man’s work will become evident, for the day will indicate it because it is revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 (LSB)

My response would be that if you believe, as Piper states, that works (or “sanctifying fruit”) play an instrumental role in securing final salvation, then you are not consistently holding to justification by faith alone. You have introduced a second instrument alongside faith. Faith alone is the instrument that unites us to Christ from first to last. While that faith will always produce good works, those good works contribute nothing to salvation at any point or in any sense. They only confirm that the faith is genuine/living.

Piper, quite rightly, draws a distinction between Justification and Salvation: We are justified by faith alone, Piper's never denied this. We are saved by faith and works done in faith, i.e. we are sanctified by such works. He asserts, and I agree with him, that without holiness we will not see the Lord. Heb. 12:14. By final salvation he means glorification and the complete removal of sin.

I will also pass. I don’t understand how Francis Chan carries any sort of credibility after uniting with those guys…

Repent of your sins and trust in Jesus alone to save you from the consequence of your sin (hell). That is the first place you must start in prayer if you want any hope that your prayers will be heard by God. Then you can rest assured that you actually WILL LIVE FOREVER IN GOD’s PRESENCE. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16, ESV) “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,” (1 Peter 3:18, ESV)

I've been praying the past few weeks. Unsure why. There's good evidence behind prayer. It mimics breathwork, calming the nervous system, dropping cortisol, and quieting the brain. Daily prayers show lower depression, anxiety, and pain. I'd like to develop a prayer practice. Growing up, the protocol was written for me. Explaining whom to pray to, the structure of the prayer, and the boundary conditions. I don't really know how to pray now.

The imperfect good works by which God judges us on judgment day are neither the grounds nor means of entering into heaven before God. They are, rather, necessarily present, such that without them, no one will (ordinarily) enter into heaven. Why are they not grounds? Because Christ's work alone is the ground. Why are they not means? Because only faith can be a means of entering into heaven by virtue of its act of receiving Christ and His righteousness. Some say that good works are necessary as **evidential means** of entering into heaven. That is, they deny that good works are the ground or the receptive means of entering into heaven, but they are still the evidential means that *God* requires of us before He will let us into heaven. In reply, God simply needs no such evidence. He has given us Christ's righteousness, and He has given us the Spirit to work holiness within us. Christ's complete righteousness is wholly sufficient for our entry into heaven, such that no other good works can be justly required of us before God for entry into heaven. It makes no sense that good works would be required as evidence before God, since God needs no such evidence. Why then are we judged by our works? God judges us by our works of faith to vindicate or to prove us to be God's children before mankind, the angels, and even before our own consciences. Our faithful works are about glorifying God's grace, but they are not a requirement of divine justice. Therefore, our works of faith are necessarily present, if we are to enter into heaven. But they are necessarily present (excepting infants and mentally handicapped people) to vindicate God's gracious salvation in God's presence on judgment day to silence the accusations of His fallen creation. Why is this important? Because the motive of our good works is important. We must do good works out of love for Christ, joy in Him, the reverential fear of God, the authority of God, to avoid divine discipline, to increase in communion with God, even for heavenly rewards, etc. But we should never attempt to do good works so that we can get into heaven! That would be a disastrous motive because it implies that Christ's objective work is not sufficient for our entry into heaven, and it removes the consolation of the saints. It would ultimately cast us back on ourselves for our salvation at least in part. It would turn our good works into proud and bad works.

Can’t wait for my copy to arrive

If anyone says the non-meritorious works of faith are a secondary means of justification before God, let him be anathema (Gal 1:8-9; 2:16).

Nice

One of the best verses proving Jesus’s divinity is Hebrews 13:8: “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.” The only way to interpret this and make sense of it is to say that Jesus is unchanging according to His divinity, even while His humanity experienced real development and change in time.

If the Son has a different will than the Father that He has to submit to, that introduces change in God and denies His immutability. Therefore, if you affirm that God is immutable (“For I the LORD do not change,” Malachi 3:6; “with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change,” James 1:17), you must conclude that EFS is clearly wrong. Any instance that appears to show Jesus submitting His will to the Father’s must be attributed to His human nature, or else the Bible contradicts itself. Note that it is impossible for the Son to do anything but what He sees the Father doing: ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise’ (John 5:19).

This is so true

Good analysis by @jonharris1989: “I Read Russell Brand's New Christian Book So You Don't Have To” youtube.com/live/mKgHu3AwF… via @YouTube

Wow

Amen! Thank you Lord Jesus!