Stuart (SSRI taperer)

"SSRIs are effective." -- How do you know? "Patients report a clinically insignificant improvement on a questionnaire." -- What about the patients who report side-effects and debilitating withdrawal symptoms? "Patient reports aren't reliable."

@JamesMcGou92563 @matthewbaszucki Would love for you to volunteer for such a study, abruptly discontinue the medication and report back, James. You might find the "rapid rescue" as thoroughly unhelpful as I did.

You're not going to believe this one....a discontinuation study is a psychiatric research method where you put patients on a medication, then abruptly remove it from half of them. The half you took off the medication feels terrible. Withdrawal symptoms, destabilization, etc. The half still on the medication feels comparatively fine. Researchers then use this contrast to argue the medication is effective. Do you see the problem? They aren't measuring the drug's effectiveness. They're measuring the withdrawal effects of removing it abruptly. And they use that distinction to push medications through FDA approval. This methodology was used with lithium. It has been used repeatedly across psychiatric medication trials. It is COMPLETE fraud, dressed in the language of science.

What could possibly go wrong.

@Philadeliberty @jill_d35 @senatorshoshana Indeed. Which is strange for something both effective and safe.

@FarewellSSRI @jill_d35 @senatorshoshana Feel free to do so. It's used mostly as a last resort for people experiencing symptoms or conditions that severely disrupt their lives.

In my free time I've been researching psychiatric medication studies just because I'm a nerd. I understand the nuance around this all, but I'm really floored how antidepressants don't perform a ton better than placebos. It's really shocking!

@Philadeliberty @jill_d35 @senatorshoshana Thanks for the link. The article is kind of damning ECT with faint praise. The improvement in 50 years is where the electrodes are placed and apparently better control of the current. Proving that these parameters aren't based on any actual measurable property. I would pass.

@FarewellSSRI @jill_d35 @senatorshoshana yalemedicine.org/news/electroco…

@JunHongLi56447 @GeorgeKirov1 @ProfRobHoward Ah, but aren't patient anecdotes completely worthless @JunHongLi56447 ? Or are they valuable if they show what Rob and George want them to show?

@GeorgeKirov1 @ProfRobHoward So, here, I contacted a person who benefited significantly from ECT. He reported that after receiving ECT for a period of time, his memory and thinking completely recovered. And getting better and better.

@blogagog @senatorshoshana 🤣 Her idea is better, but if you're alive to write it I look forward to your book.

@senatorshoshana In my free time I've been taking psychiatric medication just because I'm a nerd. Your idea is better. ;)

@Philadeliberty @jill_d35 @senatorshoshana There were no OFOTCN "days" because that's a movie, but actually ECT hasn't changed at all, has it? The patient is just sedated so it looks more palatable.

@jill_d35 @senatorshoshana Modern-day ECT is very, very different than the One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest days.

@GB_Cobber @BlackshepSusan This comment is exclusively about people who have experienced drug harm 😀

@FarewellSSRI @BlackshepSusan Not necessarily. Not everyone takes "the drug."

As counter intuitive as this sounds once you realize psychiatric drug harm is not just you but millions of others as well all over the world it helps you understand you were not gullible. Instead of a victim you become an advocate to spread accurate knowledge of how devastating and life altering psychiatric drug injuries are. It's amazing to see people tell their stories and help others understand what has happened to them. Thank God for social media that has given us a voice.

@samhall404 Remember that every change is a sign of healing. Don't be discouraged by the waves.

Live footage of my brain and body coming back online after a decade on antidepressants, three years into protracted withdrawal and now experiencing the waves and windows pattern of healing. Being able to feel love, music, nature and emotion again is profound.

@Nan986070528624 @BryceIngram10 @TheChiefNerd Some people seem to need quite a while to stabilise - your nervous system's been through a lot. Don't lose your sense of humour yet Nan... we'll find plenty more things to laugh at/about.

@FarewellSSRI @BryceIngram10 @TheChiefNerd I’ve got them all. We were using the Maudsley guide method. I think I may just am too sensitive to the Valium . Too sedative for me. My nervous system may need more time. It’s all so frustrating. I’m losing a bit of my sense of humor…that’s a big sign of trouble.

THEO VON: “One of my goals is to get off of antidepressants completely. I want to feel how I'm supposed to feel.” ROGAN: “So why did you take them in the first place?” THEO VON: “I was having a tough day at school and they f**king gave them to me, and I never got off.”

@BryceIngram10 @Nan986070528624 @TheChiefNerd If you're interested in trying to come off via tapering small doses, The Maudsley Deprescribing Guide (Wiley 2024) and Crossing Zero by Anders Sørensen are two good resources.

@BryceIngram10 @Nan986070528624 @TheChiefNerd Yes, there are a few options depending on the drug. Cutting it up, making a homemade liquid or using a compounding pharmacy to make smaller doses. (And some of them can be ordered in a liquid version)

@Phuxlea Nicely said.

Sophie has every right to believe in the causes of her own conditions and take the treatments she believes are right. The same should be true for all of us. There is a time and place to debate treatments. When the issue is someone simply speaking up about their own personal experiences, it should not be the time for the debate. Despite my hard criticisms of the psychiatric system and calls for patient-centered reforms, I would never bother someone for what they believe helps them and I call on all those in my community to do the same. It should be about building up community, not tearing other people down. Now I believe the time and place to disagree, debate, push back and argue is when others blame harmed patients or spread misinformation about the real effects of the treatments. People who experience harm from medications should not be stigmatized for speaking out. Alternative solutions, particularly the ones that work from hyperbolic tapering to ketogenic/pegan diet, should not be dismissed. Lastly, the harms of psychiatric treatments should not be downplayed. I believe that my principles stand consistent; support the survivors and human experiences, build a world where we can have a voice. That is why I oppose harassing patients of any kind, while also encourage critical thought of treatments.

@BryceIngram10 @Nan986070528624 @TheChiefNerd When you say the "lowest dose possible" do you mean the smallest available tablet? Smaller doses are always possible. It's a pain to make them, but it's necessary.

@Nan986070528624 @TheChiefNerd Yeh I’ve tried about 4 times to get off mine, after 1 day not taking it( I’m on the lowest dose possible) and my mind feels like it lags behind my eyes and feel tied and shit, doctors said it will go away eventually. The longest I lasted was about 3-4 weeks

@CharlesTannock @JunHongLi56447 @DrAnnieHickox @samhall404 @GeorgeKirov1 @ProfRobHoward @chrisaikenmd Patients in Ireland are only given ECT after trying several drugs, so it's not surprising they appear to have "treatment resistant" depression at that stage. Prophylactically? Is that evidence-based?

@JunHongLi56447 @DrAnnieHickox @FarewellSSRI @samhall404 @GeorgeKirov1 @ProfRobHoward @chrisaikenmd If a close relative had major depression with suicidal or psychotic symptoms & at risk of inanition I would never have hesitated to recommended ECT which is an efficacious & life saving treatment with little or no long term sequelae. 1 patient received it monthly prophylactically

@JunHongLi56447 @samhall404 @GeorgeKirov1 @ProfRobHoward @chrisaikenmd I'll reserve judgement on that :) but I appreciate the fact that you are combining research and personal experience.

@FarewellSSRI @samhall404 @GeorgeKirov1 @ProfRobHoward @chrisaikenmd Read and his colleagues often talk nonsense. For example, they say that we haven't identified any genes that have a causal relationship with psychopathology. If you want any evidence, Welcome to contact me.

@JunHongLi56447 @samhall404 @GeorgeKirov1 @ProfRobHoward @chrisaikenmd I hear people report benefits for OCD and anxiety a lot. I don't believe I suffered serious side-effects from SSRIs (perhaps for a short time). The serious consequences were when I quit essentially cold-turkey.

@FarewellSSRI @samhall404 @GeorgeKirov1 @ProfRobHoward @chrisaikenmd As far as I'm concerned. I got obvious benefits from SSRI. I suffer from severe obsessive-compulsive disorder and anxiety, and started taking fluvoxamine maleate tablets two years ago.

@JunHongLi56447 @samhall404 @GeorgeKirov1 @ProfRobHoward @chrisaikenmd Thanks, I will have a look. I need to go now but I appreciate the conversation 👍

@FarewellSSRI @samhall404 @GeorgeKirov1 @ProfRobHoward @chrisaikenmd x.com/JunHongLi56447… The paper I provide here shows that the efficacy of SSRI/ antipsychotic drugs is greatly increased and the side effects are greatly reduced after using genomic data.

@JunHongLi56447 @samhall404 @GeorgeKirov1 @ProfRobHoward @chrisaikenmd My personal experience can of course be dismissed as anecdotal (though wouldn't be if it supported the dr's hypothesis!) But now I'm aware of too many examples to ignore.

@JunHongLi56447 @samhall404 @GeorgeKirov1 @ProfRobHoward @chrisaikenmd I didn't say the harm far exceeds the benefit, though I do question whether the benefit exceeds the harm at all. The studies showing benefit show an almost insignificant benefit above placebo while harm has always been assumed to be zero (by practitioners, if not by researchers)