GoWithTheGospel

This is from Jeff Strongs book "Torn" that came out last week

New data coming out about how many people have been leaving the LDS church is shocking! Using the decade 2000–2009 as a baseline, the rate of disaffiliation multiplied dramatically in over the next three successive five year periods. Christians we have so many opportunities to get the gospel to these people who are leaving! Most of them become atheists which is upsetting.

One of the top reasons why people have been increasingly leaving the LDS church

@ThoughtfulSaint In a salvation context its not just intellectual assent. Its entrusting yourself to Christ, trusting in his work alone for your salvation.

Faith= pistis = allegiance If you think Pistis is about intellectual assent you are wrong

@ThoughtfulSaint @WardRadioShow @RichPierce14 @RichPierce14 Rich, the friend of Jacob's on Ward Radio that Dr White invited on the dividing line says hes willing!

@ThoughtfulSaint @WardRadioShow Youll have to get in touch with Dr White or his producer @RichPierce14

@WardRadioShow you've been invited on Dr Whites show to defend your representation of Calvinism in your song.

@ThoughtfulSaint @HwsEleutheroi James said that on his show this evening. Im sure he would love to chat with Jonah. Connect them!

@GoWithJordan_ @HwsEleutheroi When did he say that. My friend Jonah would be happy to go on with Dr White

@ThoughtfulSaint Dr. White @HwsEleutheroi has invited one of these men on his show to defend their representation, or rather, misrepresentation of Calvinism. Let your friends know if you would. Our side would love for this discussion to happen

@ThatGoldenChain Oooooh

@GoWithJordan_ youtu.be/RdrQvMXxv3s?si…

Lord let me find your light in my darkness Your life in my death Your joy in my sorrow Your grace in my sin Your riches in my poverty Your glory in my valley -Valley of Vision

@IronRodWarrior No im not. Im talking about how latter day saints have to do works to gain eternal life. I always have to be careful with the words I use thats why I say eternal life and not salvation. Again hes speaking of the fruits of the kingdom citizens and not how you gain eternal life.

See… You’re comparing apples and oranges. You seem to think that the idea of being saved from death is the same as being exalted into eternal life. When he goes through discussing blessed are the peacemakers, blessed are the meek, etc. Is he talking about himself? Or is he discussing what he will do for those who (1) choose and follow him; (2) do so in word and deed; (3) and not those who draw near to him with their lips but their hearts are far from him

The Creedal obsession with hating righteous actions is weird and demonic

@IronRodWarrior Because you're doing it to merit eternal life when the bible says that comes by faith apart from works. Its of grace not of works

@GoWithJordan_ If that’s the case, why are we incessantly attacked for any performance or good works? It’s only ever condemnation.

The sermon on the mount describes the fruit of genuine kingdom citizens. It is not a checklist of works to earn eternal life. Jesus shows what real faith looks like in daily life. Empty words without obedience reveal a false profession. Good fruit flows from a heart changed by grace. No one on my side says works are a bad thing. We say they are the fruit of a person who was already granted eternal life by faith alone

@GoWithJordan_ Bro, by rejecting works, you’re literally doing exactly what you are attacking me of doing. Have you ever actually read the sermon?

Jesus was not saying works help you embrace salvation. He made the man see his total need for grace. The disciples got it when they asked who can be saved. Jesus answered that with man it is impossible but with God all things are possible. Your take twists the story to match the lds system. That system does demand works for eternal life. You need faith plus baptism plus enduring to the end plus temple stuff plus tithing plus word of wisdom plus chastity plus celestial marriage and a bunch more. Lds leaders teach that grace comes after all you can do. Your efforts decide your final glory. You cannot call it just showing love or embracing gods will. The whole setup ties eternal life to your performance after the cross. The bible says eternal life is a free gift by faith with no works added. Mixing in requirements ignores what christ finished. The young man left sad because he clung to his own strength. Real followers leave everything because grace changes them. They do not earn a thing. Your system loads people with demands while pretending it is not works based. It is exactly that

You mean his unwillingness to sacrifice the things his heart was attached to? Which would require a work to show the Lord that He was more loved. We don’t believe works bypass the Savior, but they show our willingness to put His will first because we love him. The only reason you think we are works-based is because you were told that. We are not. But we absolutely believe we show our faith by our works, by our willingness to keep the commandments, and our willingness to sacrifice our time, talents, and possessions to serve the Lord. It’s amazing that a straight forward story has to be danced around so hard by Christians who are petrified of doing anything good, heaven forbid they should be accused of “earning” their way to heaven. Jesus redirects the young man to look to God as good, not the work itself as good. So attributes of Godliness should be the focus. But Jesus didn’t stop there, he still told the young rich man to keep the commandments for eternal life. That is the Law of Moses, the preparatory Law. Then when the Lord was asked, “what lack I yet?” Jesus didn’t say, “nothing. You’re good bruh” - He gave the young man the higher Law, the Law of Christ. “If you will be made PERFECT”. It’s a law of sacrifice but in the Lord’s way. It’s the whole point of the beatitudes. It’s the whole point of Christ’s ministry. No matter where you are now, He has given us the steps to be better and paved the path to make it possible. Those steps require our efforts - our works. Not to “earn” salvation, but to embrace it.

@IronRodWarrior You ignore actually engaging in exegesis of the sermon on the Mount

@GoWithJordan_ Awww yes. We just ignore the sermon on the mount. It spits on Jesus’ face

Jesus point wasnt to show that you had to do good works to get eternal life. He is exposing the mans false belief that he already keeps the law well enough to deserve salvation. The ruler asks what he must do to inherit eternal life. Showing a works based mindset from the start. Jesus responds by using the law to reveal the mans heart. When the man claims he has kept the commandments Jesus exposes his real idol. wealth. His unwillingness to leave his riches and follow Christ proves he has not truly loved God above all else. Which is the greatest commandment.

@GoWithJordan_ @IronRodWarrior When Jesus was asked by a young rich man how he could obtain eternal life, did Jesus respond “do nothing”, “wait for a short time and then you won’t have to do anything”, or something else? BTW, we absolutely believe that Jesus is the only way to Salvation and Eternal Life.

Hey im all about assuming good in each other and being kind and respectful and having good constructive dialogue. Thats what I want. Now I dont care if you want to call the gospel i believe in false or what ever. Ill defend what I believe but im not going to get upset lol but yes I do believe you arent believing in the gospel Jesus and the apostles preached and from my perspective it would be unloving for me not to make that known to you

@GoWithJordan_ @ThatGoldenChain @Lets_Talk_HC You’d let me have it. As I write this though.. it seems like we are all just feeding the outrage machine. Let’s break the cycle and assume the good in each other. I’m going to try to do the same with you guys.

The good ol’ news of Calvinism.

@greatlakessaint @ThatGoldenChain @Lets_Talk_HC If we did this in reverse about Mormons there would be hell to pay lol

@GoWithJordan_ @ThatGoldenChain @Lets_Talk_HC I respect you both, genuinely appreciate your takes usually but… I think you need to lighten up and be a little less sensitive. We should all be able to take a little tease.

This guy has been a problem for a while. The stuff he says to Mormons is vile. He literally told Hayden Carrol to burn in hell. He goes around to goodwills to buy up the book of mormon and boasts to mormons about how he buys them just to burn them all. He seems like a Christless nationalist too who has made it known that we should have a Christian nation and part of doing that is eradicating Mormonism. Hes just a vile person

What on EARTH? I actually looked this up and...all verified.