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GodSpeed
1.6K posts
@mxmacabre This feels like a stretch to use as an example
Kinemon is a very dignified and “holy” vassel of Oden’s, holding that position for many, many years. Just because their initial encounter and formative years weren’t so “formal” doesn’t make him unreliable or bias or contradictory
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@GodspeedEneru Unreliable narrator doesn't mean that they're wrong it means that they're telling something from a particular perspective that has a bias
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I feel like a big problem with One Piece fandom is that people do not have a good understanding that Oda frequently uses Unreliable Narrators.
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@mxmacabre I’m a bit confused by this example. What exactly here is contradictory about Oden? Unless you mean some other part where Kinemon speaks about him
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A great example of this is when we get a flashback first with people drawn a certain shadowed style (ex: Kin'emon in Wano talking about Oden the first time) only for there to be a contradictory, more detailed fleshed out story by another character in the future.
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@Ol_D_Bread @Jihookmox Wouldn’t really matter, all it takes is one single showing of “hitting without touching”, which is why I provided those panels
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@Ol_D_Bread @Jihookmox Although it’s not “impossible” to try and spin the first as some sort of block, it’s a bit of a stretch
The second one has some space from Kaido’s weapon and the “clash”. That’s more inline and clearer that it “just” being Luffy
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Morj pointed out zoro won every single interaction he had with kaido
That's a fact not an opinion
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@SurgeonofDepth This “Alabasta is the supposed ending” take feels a bit misguided when it’s extremely likely Oda…
a. Was just inaccurate with the 5 year estimate and…
b. Decided long before that point to further extend the story (he even states this when he talks about the Warlords)
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Skypiea was the first arc after the supposed ending of the story (Alabasta). So it makes sense that oda shaped the story he was going to flesh out for 23 more years starting with Skypiea
And as always skypiea has everything the fandom wants all in one arc.
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@Yakkeclash @Mamone_1 @Alex_Dani3l Ah yes, Mr. 3.
Not too such an arc like Little Garden with Mr. 3 as an antagonist should compare to Kaido who enslaved the country of Wano and killed his “little brother’s” (Momo) parents
Where are these people? Especially Lucci, Doffy, Croc, Katakuri, etc
GodSpeed@GodspeedEneru
@Mamone_1 @Alex_Dani3l Do you believe it’s just coincidence Luffy starts acting like that only in the same fight he gets Gear 5? Certainly wasn’t telling Arlong, Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Moria, Hody, Caesar, Doffy, Cracker, nor Katakuri that he was “having fun” fighting them and laughing with them
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@GodspeedEneru @Mamone_1 @Alex_Dani3l I mean if u can't tell he's excited and having fun here don't know what to tell u
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Luffy en Gear 5 qui rit parce que Kaido a esquivé son coup, alors que celui-ci a asservi les habitants de Wano pendant 20 ans… le Gear Fifth est la pire transformation de l’histoire.
Mais attends, c’est Luffy de base.
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@Yakkeclash @Mamone_1 @Alex_Dani3l Before the Kaido fight, where is Luffy telling his arc opponents he’s “having fun” with them?
Or laughing alongside them?
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@GodspeedEneru @Mamone_1 @Alex_Dani3l It does disprove since it means luffy has had fun n situations even before gear 5 form
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@Yakkeclash @Mamone_1 @Alex_Dani3l Which does nothing to disprove the statement I made
What I stated only occurs in the Kaido fight, so “it’s always been like this”, is incorrect.
If you disagree, you can feel free to show Luffy laughing alongside Doffy or telling Lucci he was “having fun” with him
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@Yakkeclash @Mamone_1 @Alex_Dani3l He’s “always been like this” for the Kaido fight sure.
Prior to that, no. He wasn’t telling his opponents he’s “having fun” and laughing alongside them. That’s a Kaido fight exclusive (same fight G5 happens, so it’s pretty obviously not a coincidence)
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@GodspeedEneru @Mamone_1 @Alex_Dani3l He's grinning in a serious fight it's funny tho you go this far even when the proof is there that he's always been like this before gear 5 form 😂
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@Yakkeclash @Mamone_1 @Alex_Dani3l This is Luffy “having fun”
It’s pretty interesting Oda chooses to have Luffy say the same thing both in base and in G5, something that (again I’ll restate), he doesn’t ever say or ask of any other major arc opponents
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@Yakkeclash @Mamone_1 @Alex_Dani3l I’ll make the same statement:
He certainly wasn’t telling any of those people he’s “having fun” and laughing alongside with them
If you believe he’s done any of those, then show that
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@Mamone_1 @Alex_Dani3l Do you believe it’s just coincidence Luffy starts acting like that only in the same fight he gets Gear 5?
Certainly wasn’t telling Arlong, Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Moria, Hody, Caesar, Doffy, Cracker, nor Katakuri that he was “having fun” fighting them and laughing with them
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@Alex_Dani3l UTTERLY DISGRACEFUL!😡Gear 5 Luffy is LAUGHING and having FUN while the people of Wano are SUFFERING!! Oh wait! That's base Luffy😔
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@Pokerocks297 @Aliban969 “Impact” here isn’t their actions, it’s how they affect the reader
Fakeouts manipulate audience: getting readers to think/feel a certain way then taking it back
For Kinemon, he’s way more relevant to the story and arc, making doing that with him much more of a “bad” thing
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@GodspeedEneru @Aliban969 Does it really? Because I feel like post fakeout Pegaya and Kinemon pretty much do nothing for the rest of the arc.
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Wano arguably has the worst pacing in the series, dragged out, tension felt almost nonexistent.
For a raid against two Yonko’s, only two people dying just made it feel like there were barely any real stakes.
LuffyEra@LuffyEraa7f
Idk why so much people hate on wano, We had one of the best flashbacks One of the best fights One of the best villains And one of the best transformation in manga history. Definitely one of the greatest arcs in manga history, people should respect it more.
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@Pokerocks297 @Aliban969 Then yeah that’s the issue.
Certain characters, frequency of fakeout, level of arc and stakes, even expectations, can all influence how terrible or how passable the “fakeout” is
GodSpeed@GodspeedEneru
@Pokerocks297 @Aliban969 Its only hypocritical if someone believes “all fakeouts have the same level of impact on the story”, but that’s false Fakeout Pagaya, it sucks. But it’s Pagaya “Absolutely wreck Kinemon and stab him for good measure, when he shows up again it’s going to impact the arc way more
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@GodspeedEneru @Aliban969 And I simply disagree and feel like it's all the same thing. I don't consider a fakeout worse than another. They all are pretty poor writing and I hate when Oda does it. But it has never ruined an arc for me and Wano is no exception.
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@Pokerocks297 @Aliban969 Its only hypocritical if someone believes “all fakeouts have the same level of impact on the story”, but that’s false
Fakeout Pagaya, it sucks. But it’s Pagaya
“Absolutely wreck Kinemon and stab him for good measure, when he shows up again it’s going to impact the arc way more
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@GodspeedEneru @Aliban969 The guy I was responding to was specifically referring to deaths and tension. I'm not talking about the rest of the arc here. My point is that using this as your reasoning while acting like other villains were more intimidating and tension was higher in other arcs is hypocritical
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@Pokerocks297 @Aliban969 The reasoning that person gave about “fakeout deaths and removes impact”, seems to have more than just the fakeouts yeah
But my own point was the fakeouts are definitely an issue with One Piece, but also it makes a lot of sense people find it more annoying in Wano that past arcs
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@GodspeedEneru @Aliban969 And it was great. I'm not saying it's flawless but your reasoning has to better than "fakeouts therefore." And again, this arc has more deaths than Marineford.
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@Pokerocks297 @Aliban969 Not sure that’s the “one and only” reason people dislike the arc
It’s not “hypocritical” if the arcs are completely different in terms of standing within the story
Expectations mean everything, especially those built by the story
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@GodspeedEneru @Aliban969 Doesn't make it bad. Saying a whole arc is bad because of that and then praising another arc that does the exact same thing is hypocritical. Your expectations prior to Wano mean nothing.
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@Pokerocks297 @Aliban969 It’s also an issue there, especially with Koza.
However, and again I must reiterate, Alabasta isn’t Wano. The buildup, setup, and stakes are completely eclipsed by the Emperor Saga and Wano Arc
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@GodspeedEneru @Aliban969 There's literally a Civil War in Alabasta and not a single person died in it.
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