Kevin Rudd

@FatherChrisVor1 You can't get 26 verses into Genesis without being wrong.

One of the more common arguments I hear from Mormons today is the claim that the Bible itself is polytheistic. This argument is not an attempt to understand the Bible on its own terms. It is an attempt to read Mormon theology back into the Bible. The problem is that the Bible simply will not cooperate. From the earliest pages of Scripture, God is revealing Himself to a particular people in the midst of a world filled with false gods, idols, and competing religious claims. The story of Israel is not the story of many gods. It is the story of the one true God calling a people to Himself. “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD” (Deuteronomy 6:4). “I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me” (Isaiah 45:5). “Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me” (Isaiah 43:10). “Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any” (Isaiah 44:8). Those are not the words of a God who is one among many gods. They are the words of the only God. Sometimes Mormons point to passages mentioning “gods,” “sons of God,” angels, heavenly beings, or earthly rulers. Yet ancient Jews never understood these passages to mean that many true gods existed alongside the God of Israel. The entire message of Israel’s Scriptures is that the gods of the nations are not gods in the sense that the LORD is God. The New Testament continues exactly the same teaching. “We know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one” (1 Corinthians 8:4). “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). The doctrine of many gods is not the faith of Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Peter, Paul, or the ancient Church. It is not even the faith of ancient Israel. This is why Christians object so strongly when the Bible is called polytheistic. It is not merely a disagreement over interpretation. It is a reversal of one of the central themes running from Genesis to Revelation. The Bible does not present many gods gradually becoming one. It presents the one true God revealing Himself to humanity and calling the nations away from every rival claim.

@residentreformr @WilliamHil73946 1Cor 8:5-6. For though there be that are called gods, whether in Heaven or in earth(as there be gods many and lords many) But to us there is but one God the Father... and one Lord Jesus Christ...

@WilliamHil73946 Mormons are great at changing the definition of things and then claiming to either do that thing or not do that thing. Polytheism isn’t limited to worship. It’s “belief in.” And Mormons certainly “believe in” more than one god. Therefore, Mormons, by definition, are polytheist

Mormons: we aren’t polytheist. Also Mormons: “Mankind are here because they are the offspring of parents who were first brought here from another earth, and were enabled to propagate their species, and they were commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds, and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through. That course has been from all eternity, and it is and will be to all eternity.” Brigham Young, JD 7:333, August 28, 1859.

@MediocreMarvin @Faustzme No, 1Cor 8:5-6. No contradiction.

@KevinRu46435609 @Faustzme So Amulek was wrong? He was a false prophet? He spoke falsely to Zeezrom?

Maybe this will help Mormons understand. Think about it this way. Mormonism is basically trans-Christian. It was born outside of Christianity, put on all the Christian clothes, Jesus, salvation, scripture, gospel, and now insists it’s the real thing. Sound familiar? Same words. Totally different meanings. When a Mormon says “Jesus” they mean the spirit brother of Lucifer who progressed to godhood. When a Christian says “Jesus” they mean the eternal God who took on flesh. That’s not a small difference. That’s a completely different person. When a Mormon says “salvation” they mean resurrection plus exaltation earned through covenants, ordinances, temple work and faithfulness to the end. When a Christian says “salvation” they mean Christ paid it all and you’re trusting Him alone. Again, not the same thing. “Gospel” not the same. “God” not the same. “Scripture” not the same. Every single load bearing word in Christianity has been gutted and restuffed with something else. But they kept the label. Joseph Smith didn’t restore Christianity. He replaced it and kept the wardrobe. That’s not a denomination. That’s not a different stream of the same faith. That’s a different religion doing a Christian cosplay. And the crazy part? Most Mormons genuinely don’t know this because they’ve only ever been handed the redefined version of those words. They’ve never actually seen what Christianity really teaches.

@MediocreMarvin @Faustzme No scripture speaks of a Heavenly Mother. It follows from Christ being the firstborn. Many believe that would imply a mother and father just like in mortality. Amulek? Jesus Himself talks of gods. John 10:34-35. 1Cor 8:5-6 sums up our view on gods.

@KevinRu46435609 @Faustzme It makes sense to me because that's what the Bible says happened. Since the Bible says nothing about a Heavenly Mother, it sounds bizarre. Also makes me wonder why Amulek said there is only one God but you believe in many gods. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is pretty explicit, no?

@NathanSteiner @IMAO_ It's not that we have some different doctrines. That is clear. It's others' arrogance that they hold claim to the term Christian. One can say we're not Catholic. Baptist, etc. but don't have the authority to say we're not Christian.

Also, the foundational claim for the church is that Joseph Smith prayed about what church to join and God told him to join none because "they were all wrong". If Joseph Smith taught all existing Christian churches were heretical, I honestly don't see why Mormons would have a problem not being considered a part of a group of Christian churches they belive God has rejected. If you are the "one true church" wouldn't you want to be set apart of all the other groups?

It’s strange to me all the focus on whether Mormons accept the trinity when it feels like there is a larger discussion on whether their faith is monotheistic.

@DWBrightman @roddreher Yes, it's quite simple. There will now not be 5 more months of ads and debates with one side trashing the Democrats in LA and CA in general. Also diminished Republican voter motivation in November.

@roddreher Can someone explain to me why the Dem establishment would want Bass running against Raman (who in 1:1 polling beats Bass by +4) instead of Pratt (who Bass crushes by +18)?

Let's assume, for argument's sake, that Nithya Raman really did, unlikely as it seems, got to second place in the LA mayoral race. The problem is that many, many, MANY of us simply cannot believe it. It seems for all the world like fraud. This matters, & is going to matter more.

@MediocreMarvin @Faustzme Really? God mom as you call it totally bizarre, but Jesus entering the world as an infant born of Mary makes sense to you? The Bible does not repudiate the idea. Where would you get the idea that the Bible is infallible?

@KevinRu46435609 @Faustzme It's perplexing because the Bible explicitly repudiates any such belief multiple times. It's not perplexing if you have a low view of scripture, which Mormons do. Mormons do not think scripture is infallible.

@mastapoohba @Faustzme Bruh, it was sarcasm.

@KevinRu46435609 @Faustzme Bruh Old Testament Temple Layout and RestrictionsAccess to the Tabernacle and the successive temples grew progressively more restricted as one approached the inner sanctum, emphasizing the holiness of God:

@Faustzme @MediocreMarvin It's so bizarre that someone would be so perplexed that a God who claims the title of Father and sent His Son to save His children,who live in world He created with fathers and mothers, might have created those as analogues to a heavenly organization.

@KevinRu46435609 @MediocreMarvin It’s so wild to hear Mormons force their doctrine into a text to make Jesus birthed by a mother god. To introduce Jesus being created and a god mom is so bizarre that it’s hard not to point out just how pagan Mormon doctrine actually is.

@MediocreMarvin @Faustzme Who, besides you, is giving her the title of God?

@KevinRu46435609 @Faustzme Her existence would, by the dictionary definition of the word, establish polytheism. "the belief in *or* worship of more than one god." If she exists and you believe in her, then by definition, you are a polytheist. This also applies to your belief about people becoming gods.

@MediocreMarvin @Faustzme Again a faulty premise. There has never been anything close to consensus in Christianity. A heavenly mother is not part of our worship, her existence would not establish polytheism. What you want to call one who inherits the kingdom of God is unimportant.

@KevinRu46435609 @Faustzme Why no mention of Heavenly Mother or people becoming gods? And your argument, again, is exactly what trans people say. "Who are you to gatekeep the terms male and female? Gender is just a social construct." You ignore thousands of years of history and consensus.

@Utahdesert @Alberto14VP @JamesSurowiecki Again this is LA 2026. The traditionalist older non leftist voters have mostly died or left town. The younger people, largely children of foreign born, just are not going to send in a ballot at the last minute in those kinds of numbers.

@KevinRu46435609 @Alberto14VP @JamesSurowiecki Election day in person are far more likely to be traditionalist, older voters--not the kind of people who voted for Raman. The undecided younger people--in a state that has had mail-in voting for decades--are going to mark their ballot and drop it off on their way somewhere else

Raman did not concede. MAGA's lie that Raman conceded also makes their conspiracy theories even more stupid than usual. If Raman knew the election was going to be rigged for her, why would she concede? Or is MAGA saying the election was rigged for her and no one told her?

@Utahdesert @Alberto14VP @JamesSurowiecki Late deciding voters includes election day in person which she didn't get. She's 3rd in her own district. She was extremely disappointed election night. LA has extremely unmotivated voters. That without any revealed plan such a # would rally to her with last minute mail in? No.

@KevinRu46435609 @Alberto14VP @JamesSurowiecki Because why?

@FatherChrisVor1 Not really complaining about pushback. Yes, very real differences in doctrine. Complaint is your arrogance that you think you can gatekeep the term Christian.

When Mormonism complains about Christian pushback, it is worth remembering that Mormonism was founded on an attack against Christianity. The churches were declared wrong. The creeds were declared an abomination. The Christian faith was declared corrupted and lost. Those are Mormon claims, not Christian ones.

@AshJWilliams3 @Garrett_Archer You're not very bright. Yes Pratt would lose after 5 months of ads and debates trashing current policies of Mayor and Governor with Republicans motivated to vote in general election in November.

@Garrett_Archer I keep asking, and none of you MAGAs can answer. Why would establishment Dems rig the race against Pratt, who was guaranteed to lose the runoff by a landslide, and in favor of Raman, who might have a puncher's chance to knock Bass off? It's utter, tinfoil hat nonsense. 😅😅

Something I learned very early on. Election officials do not care about your bell curve. They do not randomize ballots in the warehouse. You can get wildly different populations from one batch to another. Which is why we have precinct maps. Then you don't have to make these hilariously bad assumptions.

@MediocreMarvin @Faustzme Again, there is no you and the rest of Christianity. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one God in three persons in LDS theology.

@KevinRu46435609 @Faustzme Yes, Muslims say the same thing. I understand that you disagree with my position. But if I, and the rest of Christianity, insist that there is only one God, in 3 persons, then according to us, were monotheists. But Mormons say there are multiple gods but aren't polytheists. Why?

@MediocreMarvin @Faustzme Your opinion that your view of the trinity is somehow monotheism but other biblical interpretations of the trinity are polytheism and therefore invalid is just that, opinion. Certainly not Biblical.

@KevinRu46435609 @Faustzme You've named 4 gods here and then alluded to an infinite number more. Why not just admit you're a polytheist? Just say you believe the Bible teaches that. Why push against the accurate label of a person that believes that many gods exist? I don't understand your reluctance.

@Utahdesert @Alberto14VP @JamesSurowiecki If you knew anything about Los Angeles you would know that's not what happened in this case.

@KevinRu46435609 @Alberto14VP @JamesSurowiecki She didn’t perfectly anticipate the number of late deciding voters that would break for her? You’re correct. That’s the thing about late deciding voters.

@MediocreMarvin @Faustzme We believe in God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. If that's polytheistic so are the creeds. Father, Son, without a Mother? Children without potential to become like their parents?

@KevinRu46435609 @Faustzme What do you mean "most other creeds?" Also, if your contention is that the Bible teaches polytheism, then I understand your position better. Is that your position. Also, Mormons believe people can become gods. Also teaches belief in a Heavenly Mother.

@Alberto14VP @JamesSurowiecki So this is normal vote distribution that she was completely unaware of so she was devastated election night? Oh.

@JamesSurowiecki So they didn’t tell Raman, and rigged it for her as a surprise, but started rigging it late, instead of just rigging it with the first counted votes, just for fun. Oh, and they rigged it for Raman but not for Steyer, f*ck that guy.