@EyesUncloud3d @MetzUAC1530 People lie about what Mormons believe. That would be frustrating.
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@MediocreMarvin @MetzUAC1530 You’re right that was condescending. You have to realize I’ve been engaging with extremely hostile trinitarians for the last 3 days
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Dear Mormons,
If the words your god speaks are not infallible and inerrant- if it can’t even keep its prophets from making false prophecies- why would anyone even care if it were still speaking today?
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@EyesUncloud3d @MetzUAC1530 I don't think you've given me good reason to believe this answer.
If you truly wanted to debate the substance, you would have said something like, "It's not clear. Here is a scripture that supports my view."
Instead, you opened with a condescending "buddy" and then obfuscated.
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@MediocreMarvin @MetzUAC1530 .My first question was to set up an immediate follow up and it was obvious to make a point but you refused to engage and I didn’t want to pivot off. Nothing is personal here. Honestly I just want to debate the substance
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@EyesUncloud3d @MetzUAC1530 Have you ever looked up Heiser's views on how you Mormons use his work (work that is the minority)?
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@MediocreMarvin @MetzUAC1530 Well respected Hebrew scholar and evangelical theologian Michael Heiser:
“There is no clear instance of a plural of majesty used by a single speaker in Biblical Hebrew.”
Similar observations have been made by scholars such as Mark S. Smith and others
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@EyesUncloud3d @MetzUAC1530 The 3rd thing from you in this thread was about preventing me from "running away." When I pushed back, you started whining. Weird, don't you think?
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@MediocreMarvin @MetzUAC1530 The point was to answer your question directly from the bible. Where it mentions multiple Gods numerous times but doesn’t give an exact number. So that is the answer. You attributing bad faith to me where there is none
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@EyesUncloud3d @MetzUAC1530 This is flatly wrong. Why make such a claim?
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@MediocreMarvin @MetzUAC1530 The issue isn’t that Elohim is grammatically plural. The question is whether Biblical Hebrew actually used plural of majesty like European Monarchs did and there is little evidence for that usage in ancient Hebrew
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@EyesUncloud3d @MetzUAC1530 I said it refers to leaders of men. It says nothing about an actual number, which was my question. Why lie?
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@MediocreMarvin @MetzUAC1530 You asked how many Gods, I gave you a bible verse in response, and you suddenly went on a tirade of insults instead of just responding to the substance
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@EyesUncloud3d @MetzUAC1530 I'm curious. Why say "freaked out?" What made you think I was freaking out?
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@MediocreMarvin @MetzUAC1530 Real strong theology you have there
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@EyesUncloud3d @MetzUAC1530 Look up "plural honorific." If you went to a Christian church and knew Christians, you wouldn't embarrass yourself this way.
But being a polytheist, it makes sense that you'd not be so knowledgeable about this stuff.
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@MediocreMarvin @MetzUAC1530 Elohim literally translates as Gods. Elohim is used ~2600 times in the bible to depict God(s)
There is never an exact number provided which was why I provided the scripture
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@MediocreMarvin @MetzUAC1530 Completely irrelevant to everything. Don’t care
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@MediocreMarvin @MetzUAC1530 I just gave you a bible verse and you freaked out. Red flag
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@EyesUncloud3d @MetzUAC1530 But you just finished binging a bunch of Mormon podcasts targeting their angry young male audience. They want to seem cool and edgy so they use phrases like "expose" and making their opponents "run."
When you get older, you'll be embarrassed by how you're behaving.
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@EyesUncloud3d @MetzUAC1530 Since you come from a polytheistic pagan tradition, you're unaware of the thousands of years of explanation of Ezekiel. You live in a bubble.
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@stretchyWombat Then why don't you believe that Adam was God? One of your own prophets taught that over the course of years. He even punished people when they disagreed with him on it!
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If the Nicean Creed was written by prophets or apostles,
I would believe it,
But it wasn't,
So I don't
And never will.
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@EyesUncloud3d @MetzUAC1530 How did I get exposed? Did you learn these debate tactics from one of those Mormon podcasts?
I directly answered your initial question. You still haven't answered mine because you know how bad it looks to admit to being a polytheist. Intellectual cowardice at its finest!
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@MediocreMarvin @MetzUAC1530 You have no know what you believe and why and you just got exposed on it.
I worship one God. As for how many Gods we will have to look to the bible
Psalm 82:1,6
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@lmtfitts @LibertyEthics Your reasoning is the same reasoning.
Also, you believe the Bible teaches that people can become gods. That means, by the definition, that you're a polytheist. You also believe in a Heavenly Mother. Again, more than one god. Just be honest.
Don't argue like transpeople.
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@MediocreMarvin @LibertyEthics My religion is my sacred held beliefs about my God. I am not a biological woman trying to say I am a man. Good grief that comparison is asinine.
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My thing on this has nothing to do with hating on Mormons. It's just total bafflement at the argument that they're Christians. They're just... not. They're not even monotheists! Their god is not the God that created the universe. They deny the Trinity. I could go on. Just, stop.
Mike Winger@MikeWingerii
Mormons are often very personally offended when Christians say that Mormonism isn’t Christian. This is dumb. Joseph Smith’s first “encounter” with God involves God telling Smith that every creed Christians profess is an abomination to God. Every creed. That includes the Nicene Creed. They reject who God is, who Jesus is, the nature of salvation, the nature of exaltation, the clear teaching of Scripture, etc.. Mormonism rejects the very core of the Christian faith in all its essentials. Joseph Smith knew this but nowadays they are playing mind games with their own people and with real Christians. Either THEY are Christians or WE are. It’s one or the other. Not both. When asked “Will all be damned but Mormons?” Smith replied, “Yes, and a great portion of them unless they repent and work righteousness” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 119) The Doctrine and Covenants (1:30) leaves no doubt to the Mormon teaching of exclusivity when it says the LDS Church is “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased ….” Brigham Young, second only to Joseph Smith in Mormonism said… “Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity” (Journal of Discourses 10:230). “The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God” (Journal of Discourses 8:171). I could easily give you pages of them saying they are the only true Christians and how we are all ignorant beasts and our doctrines are wrong. They knew at the time they had a different God, gospel, Scripture, and system of belief. But now it has become expedient to pretend otherwise while still preaching all those false and unchristian things. Mormons, your leaders are gaslighting you and you are gaslighting us. You aren’t Christian but we want you to be. Flee from Mormonism. Flee from Joseph Smith.
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@lmtfitts @LibertyEthics How is the way you're arguing any different than a trans-person that says they are a woman when they were born a man? Who are you to judge, right?
Monotheists believe only one God exists. You believe more than one god exists. That means, definitionally, you're a polytheist.
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She also doesn’t get to tell me I am not a monotheist or that I don’t know who created the universe. I absolutely believe in the God of the Bible and she does not get to define me simply because she hasn’t bothered to learn what I do believe. This is getting really old. You worship as you wish, according to the dictates of your conscience and I will do the same. I seek not to define you and I will not allow her or anyone to define me.
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@KevinRu46435609 @Faustzme Now you're changing your own scripture. Zeezrom didn't ask how many gods Amulek had or worshipped. He asked how many exist. Amulek replied "one." That is a contradiction.
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Maybe this will help Mormons understand.
Think about it this way.
Mormonism is basically trans-Christian. It was born outside of Christianity, put on all the Christian clothes, Jesus, salvation, scripture, gospel, and now insists it’s the real thing. Sound familiar?
Same words. Totally different meanings.
When a Mormon says “Jesus” they mean the spirit brother of Lucifer who progressed to godhood. When a Christian says “Jesus” they mean the eternal God who took on flesh. That’s not a small difference. That’s a completely different person.
When a Mormon says “salvation” they mean resurrection plus exaltation earned through covenants, ordinances, temple work and faithfulness to the end. When a Christian says “salvation” they mean Christ paid it all and you’re trusting Him alone. Again, not the same thing.
“Gospel” not the same. “God” not the same. “Scripture” not the same.
Every single load bearing word in Christianity has been gutted and restuffed with something else. But they kept the label.
Joseph Smith didn’t restore Christianity. He replaced it and kept the wardrobe.
That’s not a denomination. That’s not a different stream of the same faith. That’s a different religion doing a Christian cosplay.
And the crazy part? Most Mormons genuinely don’t know this because they’ve only ever been handed the redefined version of those words. They’ve never actually seen what Christianity really teaches.
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@RyanBErickson @MetzUAC1530 @64ozDrPepper @appraiserjacob And if a prophet's words, when they supposedly come from God Himself, aren't infallible, what use is a prophet?
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@MediocreMarvin @MetzUAC1530 @64ozDrPepper @appraiserjacob No, it only means they spoke presumptuously. No prophet or apostle has ever been infallible.
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The inferior priesthood that went away because Christ came. The Mormons claim that JTB restored a useless priesthood.😂
Latter-day Truth@Latterdaytruth
On May 15, 1829, John the Baptist appeared to Joseph Smith, Jr. and Oliver Cowdery and restored the Aaronic Priesthood. “Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.”
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@RyanBErickson @MetzUAC1530 @64ozDrPepper @appraiserjacob Can you share with me another example where a prophet taught falsely about the nature of God over years and years and punished people that disagreed with him about it?
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