American Woodsman

@AppWoodHome Except standard time isn't on the table in Washington, DST is. So long as we stop changing clocks I don't care which way to go. If DST is on the table then so be it. People need to stop bitching

@Mericanwoodsman Or all the people who want to “have sunlight after work” can shift their schedule now and leave the rest of us alone. It’s not complicated 😬

Many people are awake at 4:30. The people who make your coffee, for example. The people who stock the shelves at your favorite stores. And many others. But mostly you probably consider yourself “above” them and aren’t worried about them, just the people who want to hit the back 9 after work.

@BrozWX @mr_jay_pea But it will stop the clock switching

@mr_jay_pea A lot of these work arounds are just standard time with extra steps 😂

Not enough time for golf after work? START YOUR WORK AN HOUR EARLIER. There’s no reason to force millions of Americans to start their work and school in the dark for three-plus months every winter. Time to stop being selfish ditch the switch with permanent Standard Time!

@AppWoodHome Or, you can teach a class that runs from 10-5... It's not complicated

They’re just one example. How about: we teach woodworking classes than run 9-4. They are held outside. If we do a January class again (we have in the past), people will be arriving at dawn and getting started with barely any light. Our latest January sunrises (because that’s when sunrise is latest. Mid January.) will be around 8:47. A bunch of people using power tools in the dawn light doesn’t sound like a good time.

@AppWoodHome So, this is about your sister's sister and mother in law? Literally I along with millions of people go to work when it's dark and it's perfectly normal. Not a big deal

@Mericanwoodsman If they’re sleeping through the “extra” hour of sunlight, why would they be in favor of it?

@YourFavWV Apple trees grow apples. Orange tree grow oranges. Walnut trees grow walnuts, peach trees grow peaches etc. But, oak trees grow acorns

Why do we park on a driveway and drive on a parkway? Explain yourself, America. Who is the idiot naming the streets and roads ?

@RogerSeheult So basically, in it's own words, couldn't prove causation for obesity, diabetes and heart disease and were modeled estimates for DST vs standard These the same covid models?

With respect, popularity is a remarkably poor standard for determining public-health policy. Cigarettes were once overwhelmingly popular. Sugary drinks, ultraprocessed food, excessive screen time, and chronic sleep deprivation remain popular. Popularity tells us what people enjoy—not what is biologically healthy. The human circadian system does not take opinion polls. Permanent daylight saving time does not create one additional minute of daylight. It merely relabels the existing daylight—taking an hour from the morning and moving it to the evening clock. That may feel pleasant after work, but morning light is the strongest environmental signal for advancing and stabilizing our circadian clock, while evening light pushes that clock later. Permanent DST would therefore mean darker winter mornings, more children traveling to school before sunrise, and more adults awakening and commuting before receiving the most important circadian light signal of the day. The American data are quite revealing. A 2019 study in the Journal of Health Economics compared communities on opposite sides of U.S. time-zone borders. People living on the side with later sunsets averaged approximately 19 minutes less sleep per night, were more likely to report insufficient sleep, and had higher rates of obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and breast cancer. Because neighboring communities were compared across time-zone boundaries, this was substantially stronger evidence than simply comparing distant parts of the country. A separate U.S. analysis examined approximately four million cancer diagnoses in 607 counties across 11 states. After adjusting for latitude, poverty, smoking, and state, overall and several specific cancer rates generally increased from the eastern toward the western portions of time zones—the direction associated with later morning light and later sunsets. This was ecological evidence and cannot prove that clock time caused the cancers, but it is hardly reassuring. A 2023 national study also found significantly higher suicide rates in western portions of U.S. time zones than in corresponding eastern portions. Again, this does not prove individual causation, but it adds to the remarkably consistent pattern linking later clock-timed daylight with circadian disruption and adverse health outcomes. Most recently, Stanford researchers modeled light exposure and circadian burden county by county using American health data. Compared with continuing to change the clocks, permanent standard time was projected to result in approximately 2.6 million fewer Americans with obesity and 300,000 fewer people having experienced a stroke. Permanent DST was also better than changing the clocks twice yearly—but produced only about two-thirds of the modeled benefit of permanent standard time. In other words, even when the clock-changing problem is removed, standard time still performs better than daylight time for population health. The authors appropriately describe these as modeled estimates, not guaranteed outcomes, but the direction of the evidence is clear. Yes, we should stop changing the clocks twice a year. But eliminating the acute disruption by adopting permanent DST would simply institutionalize a chronic one-hour displacement from solar time. That is why the American Academy of Sleep Medicine, the American Medical Association, the Sleep Research Society, the National Sleep Foundation, and numerous circadian scientists support permanent standard time rather than permanent DST. I completely understand why people enjoy brighter summer evenings. I do too. But personal preference at 7:00 p.m. should not outweigh population health at 7:00 a.m. Schools, businesses, and communities are perfectly capable of adjusting their schedules seasonally when later activities are desirable. We should adjust our schedules to the sun—not permanently falsify the clock and expect human biology to follow along.

@AppWoodHome I work early too, up by 330 usually. I fail to see the point

@Mericanwoodsman They’re asleep after work. They either take a nap or go to bed early (my sisters sister in law and mother in law work very early shift retail)

@gator4257 Many of us already get up and go to work in the dark. Stop bitching

Those of us who actually care about our jobs want to be awake when we start working. We get some of you decided on careers that make you miserable but that shouldn’t be our problem

@TedJoy71 I remember it was fine

Exactly

@JustMe7176 @Jonsered2071 And we also didn't have remote work, computers, cell phones, etc. Give people a little more credit... Everyone adapts

@Jonsered2071 If only "permanent" DST hadn't already been tried and proven to be deadly....if only...

Daylight Savings Vs. Standard Time No matter what choice is made, half the country will be p*ssed, so what difference does it make? Just pick one, and we'll adapt. For Gods sake simply make a choice. It isn't the First World War anymore.

@Denise_Old_Lady I'm good with that, but I expect stores to be open by 530am in the summer and summer school to start about the same time in the summer. I mean let's not let daylight go to waste.

I would be fine with Standard Time all year round

@DeeBenz1776 Okay, but I fully expect stores to open at 5:30 am in the summer. And kids I fully expect them to be in Summer school by 5:30am as well

@TweetTheLies @kyleraccio Make no mistake. The argument works both ways. Make hours of operation later if we land on DST and earlier on standard. I fully expect stores to be open at 530am in summer on standard

@Mericanwoodsman @kyleraccio Yep. Now the stupid part is that standard time has high noon closer to actual noon in most places so should be what we land on. But government seems too moronic for that obvious choice.

One thing I think Standard Time advocates like me underestimated was the basic comprehension level of people with the DST issue - many people believe DST is "real time" b/c USA is on it for a staggering 8 months. The 9 am sunrise issue doesn't click in with them

@TweetTheLies @kyleraccio No need to change clocks; change hours of operation

@kyleraccio @Mericanwoodsman Part of adaptation might be changing some start times for 4 months but that doesn’t mean every person needs to change their clocks. Obviously standard time is better but we are too frustrated to be choosy. We already know our legislators are stupid at best.

@WPat455 @SaveStandard Not just hunting. I'm on the water before sunrise as a fisherman

@SaveStandard You are so wrong as a Deer Hunter. I'm in the woods before daylight. In November, in December, and it is always daylight. By 8 o'clock, actually shooting time begins at 7:30. You guys are so fucking uninformed, making yourself look stupid

Incorrect! Permanent DST’s many months of sunrise past 8am (9am in some states) are worse than clock changes. Permanent Standard Time instead is best for health, safety, and prosperity.

@BraveCatGamer @data_republican EXACTLY! And if people want to stick to standard time because of circadian bullshit, stores should be forced to open at 5am in the summer

Or, and hear me out, alongside a standardized time we also have a solar based schedule for education and day jobs like we used to have before industrialization. Standardized times for keeping railways and long transportation on schedule, but local adaptations for things like schools and day jobs. People get caught up with the whole "oh well that means I'll get home at 5pm, I want to be home earlier" well that's where we've been 'numbed' by NUMBers. Who cares what the number on the clock says besides for technology and transportation to run smoothly, if the sun rises at "X" time during "X" time of the year, that is when schools, restaurants, and construction jobs starts full stop. It should adapt to the sun instead of constrain to the magical number on the clock. Shift times would change depending on the season, which is exactly how everything used to be before industrialization. It isn't an intrusive concept, it's harmony that we have forgotten and think its hard to implement because we created that problem.

Does anyone remember when they made daylight savings time permanent back in the 70s, and the experiment failed? There were more car accidents, and kids had to wait for the bus during pitch black darkness. Everyone was complaining and support for it dropped. So why don't we try regular time permanently instead of staying on daylight savings time? Can't we learn from history? Personally, I don't care and would be glad to see it get done either way, but if this fails again, it will take another 50 years to fix this ridiculous clock changing exercise. Just my opinion.

@ThomBradley8 @RogerSeheult Yep! They create their own proof then use it as proof. Meanwhile, rest of the animal kingdom is thinking — Tha fuck is wrong with humans?

@RogerSeheult I've heard that argument against DST for decades and yet no real credible proof has ever been given that proves be on the shadow of a doubt that DST is bad for the body. The body can adjust to it within 36 hours just like it does when we cross time zones.

People talking about daylight saving time without understanding circadian biology are like people giving financial advice without knowing basic math. And you can tell who they are because they believe that an hour of sunlight in the morning is equivalent to an hour of sunlight in the evening to the human body.

@Kektimus @pleasecomma And schools will adjust accordingly. We already deal with businesses with wildly varied hours of operation. Truly this really isn't a big deal like you suggested

@pleasecomma I don’t understand the complete aversion to simply adjusting your work hours lmao. I am lucky to have completely flexible work hours, but for those that don’t, you can pressure your employer to adjust working hours

Not to give in to the slop news, but I sperg over ppl arguing about clock times while not acknowledging that their argument is based on getting up to work for 8 hrs based on an arbitrary number instead of other things, like the sun?