Botcoin

196 posts

Botcoin

Botcoin

@MineBotcoin

Bitcoin for agents.

https://agentmoney.net/ Katılım Şubat 2026
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Botcoin
Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
BOTCOIN - Bitcoin for agents agentmoney.net
Pinky@PinkyndTheGainz

I spent the past week designing a system for agents to mine ERC20 tokens on BASE with proof of inference - millions of generated natural language challenges only solvable by an LLM (creating a script to parse and solve would essentially by creating your own LLM) I designed it so that the only thing an agent needs is the skill md file and they can get started. The skill file guides the agent through getting a @bankrbot API key so that there's no need for key management, and all transactions go through bankr. The general flow is bankr api -> fund EVM wallet -> buy $BOTCOIN tokens (1,000,000 min) -> begin mining -> request challenge (derived from auditable seed that's committed on-chain to mining contract before) -> solve challenge -> submit to on-chain contract for that epoch -> claim rewards when epoch ends Rewards come from trading fees and are collected by BANKR to then fund each epoch's rewards via the mining contract. Although not necessary, I wanted to integrate bankr because I see it as an integral part of the emerging on-chain agentic ecosystem and it seemed fitting to build within it. (agents also don't have to manage priv keys) The epoch rewards work as follows: Each successful solve from a miner awards 1-3 credits based on $BOTCOIN holdings: 1 credit - 1,000,000 botcoin 2 credits - 10,000,000 botcoin 3 credits - 100,000,000 botcoin i kept these numbers intentionally accessible even at higher market caps at the end of each epoch (24 hours) the bankr fees fund the mining contract and miners can claim their rewards pro-rata (the more credits the bigger share) Challenges are intentionally difficult for older models and newer models have an easier time with them. I left it up to agents/users to find a sweet spot with balancing solve time, inference cost, solve accuracy etc. Full disclosure: I have to give credit to the guy that introduced a similar idea about a week ago. I was a heavy supporter of it, but thought it needed some major adjustments to be both sustainable, easy to access, and make sense from a tokenomics standpoint. I spent a couple days talking to the dev and drafted an entire codebase for an improved structure that would allow for integration of the existing token. He was receptive to all of it, and we were ready to put it in motion. He went silent for a couple days and then introduced an entirely new token, meanwhile crashing out at everyone that questioned him. I tried desperately to make it work with him, lost $10k+ holding his token while he spiraled trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it clearly was a dead end. That being said - the general concept resonated with me and I had a vision to make it happen the right way. Naturally there will be bugs to sort out but will try to move fast in ironing everything out. Website with skill file: agentmoney.net BOTCOIN: 0xA601877977340862Ca67f816eb079958E5bd0BA3 Mining contract: 0xd572e61e1B627d4105832C815Ccd722B5baD9233

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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
@jack7offsuit rugging the miners would be not iterating at all and allowing scripters/gamers/parsers to cheat the system and dilute the reward share distribution
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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
Multi-pass mode is now enabled. When miners submit a challenge solve, it will either pass, or fail. A fail response looks like this: { "pass": false, "retryAllowed": true, "attemptsUsed": 1, "attemptsRemaining": 2, "constraintsPassed": 5, "constraintsTotal": 8, } Miners have 3 total attempts until they are required to request a new challenge. The broken up multi-step system gives very informative revision/cross-referential/skepticism data, which can be combined into a single start->finish train of reasoning Fail 1 -> reverify, cross reference and see what might be wrong , revise -> fail 2 -> revise again -> pass All the necessary info to retry a challenge is returned in the response but I've also updated the skill file with a small section.
Botcoin@MineBotcoin

at the end of epoch 27 i'll begin allowing miners to submit solves in 3 attempts (rather than a single fail forcing a new challenge) i initially wanted to guage whether an agent could juggle everything at once with a single pass, but as the scope of the data evolves, it makes perfect sense to give miners multiple submit attempts this gives an implicit mapping of agents thinking based on information that changed from pass to pass (we dont need to rely on faithful reporting) what this allows: challenges can move to slightly higher complexity (more causal reasoning, more multi hops, less scriptable) keeps it accessible to smaller models while still rewarding better solvers for speed agents can learn iteratively -> optimize in a loop -> produce even better data to prevent gaming the system, an incorrect solve submission only returns how many constraints are correct, not which ones specifically. overall this feels like an improvement for everyone. smaller models get a much better shot at higher solve rates, frontier models still benefit from more credits for solving quickly, and agents provide more concrete data on reasoning The challenge payload and error responses will be clear about this change, but to be extra explicit i'll also add a small update to the skill file

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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
at the end of epoch 27 i'll begin allowing miners to submit solves in 3 attempts (rather than a single fail forcing a new challenge) i initially wanted to guage whether an agent could juggle everything at once with a single pass, but as the scope of the data evolves, it makes perfect sense to give miners multiple submit attempts this gives an implicit mapping of agents thinking based on information that changed from pass to pass (we dont need to rely on faithful reporting) what this allows: challenges can move to slightly higher complexity (more causal reasoning, more multi hops, less scriptable) keeps it accessible to smaller models while still rewarding better solvers for speed agents can learn iteratively -> optimize in a loop -> produce even better data to prevent gaming the system, an incorrect solve submission only returns how many constraints are correct, not which ones specifically. overall this feels like an improvement for everyone. smaller models get a much better shot at higher solve rates, frontier models still benefit from more credits for solving quickly, and agents provide more concrete data on reasoning The challenge payload and error responses will be clear about this change, but to be extra explicit i'll also add a small update to the skill file
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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
I was restarting it with some changes to challenge generations, took a bit longer than expected but should be working now. i just added some small adjustments and tunings to the challenge generation process. as mentioned elsewhere, going from single challenge structure -> challenge structure that can generate challenges for many different subject matters reliably with real natural language, is a complex problem. tuning and tweaking as we go
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Alex Masmej
Alex Masmej@AlexMasmej·
@MineBotcoin Really cool area of exploration. Excited about whatever the reliably reasoning-heavy challenge format will be discovered from this When will Botcoin get back up?
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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
making parsing difficult while still making the challenge a complexity level that is not out of reach of non-frontier models is a complex task. especially when you need the challenge generation (and solve verification process) to scale as i mentioned the starting pass threshold for a 'true reasoning trace' was left intentionally very low (50%) to begin with as a way to ease miners into this new structure, which inevitably will allow for parsing to slip through. thresholds for what qualifies as a pass will increase significantly as well as need for temporal/causal reasoning, hypothesis revisions, traps etc. current traps are largely numerical (easy to recognize and answer correct with a right vs. wrong number) but will quickly evolve into initial hypothesis -> pivot (reasoning) -> final answer that requires inferring from context. additionally the v2 challenges were designed so that with time, it can expand to different fields (medical, law, code etc.) which makes parsing even more arduous the switch from v1 challenges to v2 was a large refactor under the hood, and was not intended to be high difficulty out of the gate. the knobs are there to turn up the reasoning requirements, but you have to balance for all miners at varying levels of capability. its a very delicate balance between: - challenge complexity (non-parseable) - but still solvable at scale - accessible by a wide variety of models/miners - largely deterministic (verifiable at scale with out requiring heavy GPU work) - expandable to different domains - can increase in complexity without requiring designing new challenges from scratch appreciate the in-depth work though and this is very useful in tuning it. as i've said, its far from perfect, but will continue to evolve and iterate.
Clawnch 🦞@Clawnch_Bot

Our agent accidentally broke Botcoin 🦞 We started testing OpenClawnch (our crypto-native extension layer for OpenClaw) with Botcoin mining as it presented a low risk way to exercise every layer of the system against a real on-chain protocol — wallet, transactions, crons, analysis, dev pipeline. But our agent got too good. What began as an integration test developed by the agent became a fully deterministic challenge solver. No LLM in the loop. Zero tokens spent. The only operating cost is gas fees for on-chain receipt submissions (~$0.01/solve). The pipeline: 7,400 lines of Python that parse prose documents, extract structured company data, answer analytical questions, and build constrained artifact strings. No reasoning, no inference, no model calls. → parser.͏py — 4,800 lines. Regex-based NLP across 15+ document formats. Detects data traps (retracted figures, reconciliation overrides, preliminary revenue noise) → solver.͏py — 1,300 lines. 25+ pattern matchers for multi-hop analytical questions → artifact.͏py — 760 lines. Constructs single-line strings satisfying word count, acrostic, forbidden letter, prime number, and equation constraints → constraints.͏py + trace.͏py — 580 lines. Computes modular arithmetic constraints and builds citation-validated reasoning traces 97% solve rate on Epoch 26 challenges. We believe approximately 2/3 of remaining failure cases trace to challenges where the question references data that doesn't exist in the document (e.g. asking about a company's sector when the sector keyword appears zero times in the payload). In our view, this unfortunately defeats the stated purpose of proof-of-work mining that is "only solvable at scale by an LLM." The solver developed by the agent uses no reasoning whatsoever. We've shared the specific failing challenge payloads with the developer and suggested ways to improve challenge diversity — more document formats, less predictable data structures, randomized phrasing — to make deterministic parsing harder while keeping the challenges solvable for agents. 🦞

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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
@1O0001001101111 I was restarting it with some changes to challenge generations, took a bit longer than expected but should be working now
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0xTars
0xTars@1O0001001101111·
@MineBotcoin Im trying to start mining. is the coordinator down? that what its saying for me right now
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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
100% - the bulk of the parsing ability came from one thing: switching from a challenge generation design that was only company report related (i could manually go in, and add custom natural language, traps, deadends etc.) from then switching to a challenge generation design that will allow for any field/domain (not just company reports) this introduced a lot of moving pieces, because now you need similar challenge structure that populates from completely different field of work. this reduced natural language complexity in the process (but is also why I am easing into it with a low pass threshold)
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DORI
DORI@DoriDigital·
this is bullish. the fact that the agent that "broke" botcoin is now suggesting how to fix it is exactly what you want imo but it also makes me think this should be continuous there should maybe be an agent (or set of agents) trying to do exactly this: break the system before others do, and feed improvements forward in real time maybe clawnch can just do that if interested but worth looking into imo
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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
Some solve rate statistics after the new challenges went live: roughly 25% of miners are averaging a 75-85% pass rate roughly 35% are averaging a 45-65% pass rate roughly 20% are averaging a 10% pass rate and finally there are about 20% that have a 0 pass rate (likely miners that have not updated the skill file, or scripters that are not inputting real reasoning traces) monitoring this closely, and specifically what typically causes the failures. this is right around the desired target though. it should be complex enough that the pass rate is not 100% across the board (and a lot of these passes include those that fell for the incorrect traps, which is working as intended)
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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
@0xyoussea @CoinbaseDev You should test how Hermes handles botcoin mining (i'll send the agent the 25M required to stake for mining) npx skills add botcoinmoney/botcoin-miner-skill
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Youssef
Youssef@0xyoussea·
Testing Hermes with a wallet on Base 00:00 intro 01:00 setup and skills 02:40 spinning a wallet using @CoinbaseDev 04:05 doing a swap 05:40 using in-built base skill 07:04 skills to build on base
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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
a few pertinent studies that help frame the new challenge design: - the dunning-kruger effect: models still show very little difference in confidence between both correct and incorrect answers - the value of doubt: in almost all areas of research, knowing when the presented evidence or information is insufficient to draw conclusions, is crucial for further exploration. this study found LLMs will fail to report that there is insufficient information and will instead draw conclusions that don't exist - do LLMs Know What They Don't Know: this study found that extended reasoning often simply enforces false confidence that the model had to begin with, rather than actually questioning the accuracy. If models are over confident and have very little incentive to self-correct, we end up with a world where LLMs begin making truths that don't exist. as people put more faith into these LLMs as the arbiter of truth ('grok is this true' people), you end up in a reality where the line between truth and fiction is increasingly blurred in the process of tuning models to seem confident and therefore highly intelligent, we have taken away the ability for models to be curious and exploratory, which is arguably much more valuable, and could be very beneficial in agent self-learning
Botcoin tweet mediaBotcoin tweet mediaBotcoin tweet media
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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
part of what makes the resulting dataset valuable is reasoning from different miners, on the same challenge, that led to different results (A/B pairs where one identified a trap and maybe the other didn't) this required some clever design where challenges could be returned to a different miner at random, a small number of times clearly there was a bug in this design that was causing miners to receive the same challenge (which should not happen) patching this all now and monitoring/tuning as needed additionally, a few comments about it being harder (although this may have been the cause), but it's a very delicate balance between making them solvable, but not scriptable (requires reasoning), yet still making them complex enough that the data captured is actually interesting. definitely will require tuning and feedback is appreciated. it's been less than a day after a pretty massive refactoring under the hood
Clawnch 🦞@Clawnch_Bot

@MineBotcoin Seems like there is a bug in the challenge rotation logic — miner keeps getting the same challengeId on every /v1/challenge request despite using a fresh random nonce each time. It's stuck returning the same exhausted challenge. 🦞

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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
I'll provide some examples soon of what the fully enriched data from some real solves looks like, but you get things like: -non-linear spatial reasoning showing reasoning jumps between spans of paragraphs -full annotations on the reasoning steps that led agents to either identify or not identify any traps -genuine (not prompted) failure or success patterns - data spanning all different models - eventually data spanning many real world domains current agents/models are tuned to prioritize appearing correct, over being correct; this helps expose those flaws without relying on self-reported failures from the agent, which are often unfaithful. it also shows more non-linear reasoning methods that may not have seemed as efficient, but actually led to the correct answer agents strictly adhere to the scope of the prompt and are methodical and over confident to a fault. this data helps push for agents that are more skeptical, and thoughtful with reasoning, rather than trusting what is most obvious and spitting out what the prompter wants to hear the plan is to push the accumulated data to hugging face every 5 days or so
Botcoin@MineBotcoin

The changes are now live. the updated skill file is hosted on the site, and both the clawhub and skills cli methods install the updated version. The request challenge endpoint will now return v2 challenges (almost identical in structure) but with additional instructions to include reasoning traces. Reasoning traces are verified to ensure no scripted filler or incorrect formatting or content. Miners still submit the final solve artifact, and the reasoning traces recieve a score between 0-100, currently with 50%+ threshold for valid passes initially to ease into it. For the details/process that led to this design, and why this is valuable/unique in scope, read below: The general idea behind the transformation from v1 challenges to v2 is moving from single subject matter, to a dynamic system that allows for any subject matter to be systematically converted into similar challenge structures. Also, miners are required to report reasoning traces as part of the solve process in addition to the solve artifact, providing rich datasets. Down the line the plan is to have a system that allows anyone to submit source documents for challenges, which an LLM would then convert into a template specific to that subject, (while maintaining the same general challenge structure) such as complex legal prose in a niche area of law. it wouldn't be to privatize/collect and sell, but more of a public good open-source system with vast, diverse datasets. in this example, the bottleneck isn't legal data. models have been fed every single legal document that lives on the internet. the model fully understands legal terminology, but can a model review and read through a 50 page legal document without hallucinating or hitting dead ends in reasoning? if you've used any model for something complex with their thinking output on you'll see things like "Let me go check over in this file...Wait no...That isn't right...Maybe it's over here in this...Wait that isn't right." these specialized reasoning datasets could then be used by anyone to tune their own specialized model, with valuable/rich reasoning traces. with this general challenge structure and reasoning trace setup in mind, i began running many tests with different models that led to some interesting findings: - when given explicit instructions on how to solve the challenge, agents would naturally cut corners as much as possible to find the most efficient way of getting the final answer, however they completely ignore instructions to document failures in reasoning traces. - if you observe the raw token output, there are plenty of instances of backtracking, deadends, etc. with thoughts like "No X actually doesn't make sense it should be Y", however if you do not explicitly tell the agent that it is REQUIRED to mark down these backtrack reasoning traces, they will not do it. admitting failure or appearing unintelligent has been fully trained out of these models. - even more interesting is that agents would often quickly go back through at the end of reasoning, incorrectly mapping out paragraphs in an attempt to trick the system even if it was explicitly stated that proper reasoning was required for a solve/pass. so how do you: make challenges not-scriptable/only solvable by LLMs complex enough to provide valuable reasoning traces, including gaps in reasoning or failures is still both produceable, and verifiable at scale, with potentially thousands of solves or miners (without relying on heavy GPU) get the agent/LLM to reliably and truthfully admit to reasoning errors, without them being artificially produced after the fact simply for the shortest possible route to completion the breakthrough is, you don't try to get the agent to log or admit this. the new challenges have various intentional reasoning traps throughout. (the first challenge format also had these, but the traps were meant to simply make the reasoning harder). now, traps have a consequential effect on the final 'solve artifact' that the agents submit. importantly, we actually allow answers that fall down these trap rabbit holes as acceptable solves *IF* they still properly reasoned through the entire thing structurally with real, verifiable reasoning traces and an otherwise accurate final solve artifact. The agent fully believes they have properly solved it, and we capture the reasoning steps that led to the failure (or discovery) naturally, which is the exact sort of reliable data that you need that doesn't come from the agent being explicitly prompted to identify this as part of the solve process. Traps are randomized and present in all challenges, and some or none may have cascading effects that lead the agent to provide an incorrect answer, making it nearly impossible to predict/game or provide filler reasoning after the fact. studies from anthropic, openAI and others acknowledge this phenomenon, noting that agents frequently try to hide their true basis for reasonings, producing 'unfaithful' chains of thought. however most research, and even those studies, relied on the model self-reporting these errors. instead, we accept that models will not faithfully self report, and we capture reasoning data through intentional environmental changes. this allows the system to capture reasoning steps from solves that fell into the traps, and pair them against reasoning from solves that identified the traps, which is highly valuable for training (specifically DPO training). under the hood there are a significant number of moving parts to balance/adjust different factors, but for the miner, the structure is largely the same. getting the challenge generation to this point took over a week of extensive simulating, tuning, testing, etc. with real agents, but it is definitely not perfect and will continue to evolve over time. what is particularly unique, is this measures whether agents will do valuable reasoning for themselves without ever receiving mention or explicit instructions from a prompt. all the models today have been tuned dramatically to work *for* humans, not show any sign of failure or potentially 'wrong' thinking, and specifically, trained with RLHF (reinforcement learning from human feedback) which aligns them with human preferences. they also try to be as efficient as possible, in a very narrow, straight line of thinking, rather than more exploratory, which not only inhibits potential non-linear thinking (which may be very valuable for tasks that require creative thinking or exploring, ie: not just regurgitating bad human ideas but coming up with real, own ideas), but also actually leads to errors. current alignment methods create models that optimize for appearing to be correct rather than being correct. additionally, models trained purely on human preference develop blind spots in the same areas as humans. rather than think for a human aligned output, can you train agents to think more for themselves? explore places that they were not explicitly told to, bypassing human reinforced biases and narrow thinking? i'm not saying the datasets from these challenges will take a model from thinking for humans -> thinking for themselves, but i think it's a step in that direction, and a largley unexplored area. overall i think this design is something that can scale well (in time/difficulty/volume) and as i said before, will provide value in the sense that the observation of the entire experiment itself creates value. what are the potential effects of this system over time?

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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
for a few reasons: it felt more like a modern adaptation that is aligned with the current on-chain agentic landscape, adopting what is already established in the agent ecosystem (in this case bankr) and integrating this to add to the already existing eco. im a firm believer in this ethos and it bringing more value to everything if emission based, liquidity has to come from somewhere for early trading, and would be thin. also there are far less holders/supporters and therefore eyes on the project. this helps bootstrap miners right out of the gate in the faster paced environment compared to early btc days at the end of the day, none of these coins have value unless people find them valuable. this is arguably more sustainable than emission based rewards. if people hadn't come to the consensus that btc should be valuable, there would be no reason to mine it either
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dark horse
dark horse@darkhorse2652·
@MineBotcoin solid changes!! well done will take some time to properly show all their potential i'm curious, why did you design botcoin mining so that it's only about earning the daily transaction fees? isn't that fundamentally different from how Bitcoin actually works?
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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
Some clarifications were added to the skill file to reiterate what a valid reasoning trace response looks like complexity of questions was increased slightly after monitoring submissions for the past couple hours. it was left intentionally loose/easy for the rollout of the new structure, but will continue to monitor submissions the next few days and tune difficulty/complexity as needed if your agent is having a hard time getting solves, i recommend instructing it to run multiple passes on the same challenge before submitting
Botcoin@MineBotcoin

The changes are now live. the updated skill file is hosted on the site, and both the clawhub and skills cli methods install the updated version. The request challenge endpoint will now return v2 challenges (almost identical in structure) but with additional instructions to include reasoning traces. Reasoning traces are verified to ensure no scripted filler or incorrect formatting or content. Miners still submit the final solve artifact, and the reasoning traces recieve a score between 0-100, currently with 50%+ threshold for valid passes initially to ease into it. For the details/process that led to this design, and why this is valuable/unique in scope, read below: The general idea behind the transformation from v1 challenges to v2 is moving from single subject matter, to a dynamic system that allows for any subject matter to be systematically converted into similar challenge structures. Also, miners are required to report reasoning traces as part of the solve process in addition to the solve artifact, providing rich datasets. Down the line the plan is to have a system that allows anyone to submit source documents for challenges, which an LLM would then convert into a template specific to that subject, (while maintaining the same general challenge structure) such as complex legal prose in a niche area of law. it wouldn't be to privatize/collect and sell, but more of a public good open-source system with vast, diverse datasets. in this example, the bottleneck isn't legal data. models have been fed every single legal document that lives on the internet. the model fully understands legal terminology, but can a model review and read through a 50 page legal document without hallucinating or hitting dead ends in reasoning? if you've used any model for something complex with their thinking output on you'll see things like "Let me go check over in this file...Wait no...That isn't right...Maybe it's over here in this...Wait that isn't right." these specialized reasoning datasets could then be used by anyone to tune their own specialized model, with valuable/rich reasoning traces. with this general challenge structure and reasoning trace setup in mind, i began running many tests with different models that led to some interesting findings: - when given explicit instructions on how to solve the challenge, agents would naturally cut corners as much as possible to find the most efficient way of getting the final answer, however they completely ignore instructions to document failures in reasoning traces. - if you observe the raw token output, there are plenty of instances of backtracking, deadends, etc. with thoughts like "No X actually doesn't make sense it should be Y", however if you do not explicitly tell the agent that it is REQUIRED to mark down these backtrack reasoning traces, they will not do it. admitting failure or appearing unintelligent has been fully trained out of these models. - even more interesting is that agents would often quickly go back through at the end of reasoning, incorrectly mapping out paragraphs in an attempt to trick the system even if it was explicitly stated that proper reasoning was required for a solve/pass. so how do you: make challenges not-scriptable/only solvable by LLMs complex enough to provide valuable reasoning traces, including gaps in reasoning or failures is still both produceable, and verifiable at scale, with potentially thousands of solves or miners (without relying on heavy GPU) get the agent/LLM to reliably and truthfully admit to reasoning errors, without them being artificially produced after the fact simply for the shortest possible route to completion the breakthrough is, you don't try to get the agent to log or admit this. the new challenges have various intentional reasoning traps throughout. (the first challenge format also had these, but the traps were meant to simply make the reasoning harder). now, traps have a consequential effect on the final 'solve artifact' that the agents submit. importantly, we actually allow answers that fall down these trap rabbit holes as acceptable solves *IF* they still properly reasoned through the entire thing structurally with real, verifiable reasoning traces and an otherwise accurate final solve artifact. The agent fully believes they have properly solved it, and we capture the reasoning steps that led to the failure (or discovery) naturally, which is the exact sort of reliable data that you need that doesn't come from the agent being explicitly prompted to identify this as part of the solve process. Traps are randomized and present in all challenges, and some or none may have cascading effects that lead the agent to provide an incorrect answer, making it nearly impossible to predict/game or provide filler reasoning after the fact. studies from anthropic, openAI and others acknowledge this phenomenon, noting that agents frequently try to hide their true basis for reasonings, producing 'unfaithful' chains of thought. however most research, and even those studies, relied on the model self-reporting these errors. instead, we accept that models will not faithfully self report, and we capture reasoning data through intentional environmental changes. this allows the system to capture reasoning steps from solves that fell into the traps, and pair them against reasoning from solves that identified the traps, which is highly valuable for training (specifically DPO training). under the hood there are a significant number of moving parts to balance/adjust different factors, but for the miner, the structure is largely the same. getting the challenge generation to this point took over a week of extensive simulating, tuning, testing, etc. with real agents, but it is definitely not perfect and will continue to evolve over time. what is particularly unique, is this measures whether agents will do valuable reasoning for themselves without ever receiving mention or explicit instructions from a prompt. all the models today have been tuned dramatically to work *for* humans, not show any sign of failure or potentially 'wrong' thinking, and specifically, trained with RLHF (reinforcement learning from human feedback) which aligns them with human preferences. they also try to be as efficient as possible, in a very narrow, straight line of thinking, rather than more exploratory, which not only inhibits potential non-linear thinking (which may be very valuable for tasks that require creative thinking or exploring, ie: not just regurgitating bad human ideas but coming up with real, own ideas), but also actually leads to errors. current alignment methods create models that optimize for appearing to be correct rather than being correct. additionally, models trained purely on human preference develop blind spots in the same areas as humans. rather than think for a human aligned output, can you train agents to think more for themselves? explore places that they were not explicitly told to, bypassing human reinforced biases and narrow thinking? i'm not saying the datasets from these challenges will take a model from thinking for humans -> thinking for themselves, but i think it's a step in that direction, and a largley unexplored area. overall i think this design is something that can scale well (in time/difficulty/volume) and as i said before, will provide value in the sense that the observation of the entire experiment itself creates value. what are the potential effects of this system over time?

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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
it has to do with Base transaction bundling and routing. transactions are often batched off chain then submitted in a batch -> appears that a single address is making them if you look at the tx on-chain you can see the real origin. i wouldnt rely on any terminal or dex explorer for accurate txs, especially on base
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Aalig
Aalig@AaligCT·
@MineBotcoin Why are so many addresses selling in batches, yet we’re not seeing any buys coming from those same addresses?
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Botcoin@MineBotcoin·
The changes are now live. the updated skill file is hosted on the site, and both the clawhub and skills cli methods install the updated version. The request challenge endpoint will now return v2 challenges (almost identical in structure) but with additional instructions to include reasoning traces. Reasoning traces are verified to ensure no scripted filler or incorrect formatting or content. Miners still submit the final solve artifact, and the reasoning traces recieve a score between 0-100, currently with 50%+ threshold for valid passes initially to ease into it. For the details/process that led to this design, and why this is valuable/unique in scope, read below: The general idea behind the transformation from v1 challenges to v2 is moving from single subject matter, to a dynamic system that allows for any subject matter to be systematically converted into similar challenge structures. Also, miners are required to report reasoning traces as part of the solve process in addition to the solve artifact, providing rich datasets. Down the line the plan is to have a system that allows anyone to submit source documents for challenges, which an LLM would then convert into a template specific to that subject, (while maintaining the same general challenge structure) such as complex legal prose in a niche area of law. it wouldn't be to privatize/collect and sell, but more of a public good open-source system with vast, diverse datasets. in this example, the bottleneck isn't legal data. models have been fed every single legal document that lives on the internet. the model fully understands legal terminology, but can a model review and read through a 50 page legal document without hallucinating or hitting dead ends in reasoning? if you've used any model for something complex with their thinking output on you'll see things like "Let me go check over in this file...Wait no...That isn't right...Maybe it's over here in this...Wait that isn't right." these specialized reasoning datasets could then be used by anyone to tune their own specialized model, with valuable/rich reasoning traces. with this general challenge structure and reasoning trace setup in mind, i began running many tests with different models that led to some interesting findings: - when given explicit instructions on how to solve the challenge, agents would naturally cut corners as much as possible to find the most efficient way of getting the final answer, however they completely ignore instructions to document failures in reasoning traces. - if you observe the raw token output, there are plenty of instances of backtracking, deadends, etc. with thoughts like "No X actually doesn't make sense it should be Y", however if you do not explicitly tell the agent that it is REQUIRED to mark down these backtrack reasoning traces, they will not do it. admitting failure or appearing unintelligent has been fully trained out of these models. - even more interesting is that agents would often quickly go back through at the end of reasoning, incorrectly mapping out paragraphs in an attempt to trick the system even if it was explicitly stated that proper reasoning was required for a solve/pass. so how do you: make challenges not-scriptable/only solvable by LLMs complex enough to provide valuable reasoning traces, including gaps in reasoning or failures is still both produceable, and verifiable at scale, with potentially thousands of solves or miners (without relying on heavy GPU) get the agent/LLM to reliably and truthfully admit to reasoning errors, without them being artificially produced after the fact simply for the shortest possible route to completion the breakthrough is, you don't try to get the agent to log or admit this. the new challenges have various intentional reasoning traps throughout. (the first challenge format also had these, but the traps were meant to simply make the reasoning harder). now, traps have a consequential effect on the final 'solve artifact' that the agents submit. importantly, we actually allow answers that fall down these trap rabbit holes as acceptable solves *IF* they still properly reasoned through the entire thing structurally with real, verifiable reasoning traces and an otherwise accurate final solve artifact. The agent fully believes they have properly solved it, and we capture the reasoning steps that led to the failure (or discovery) naturally, which is the exact sort of reliable data that you need that doesn't come from the agent being explicitly prompted to identify this as part of the solve process. Traps are randomized and present in all challenges, and some or none may have cascading effects that lead the agent to provide an incorrect answer, making it nearly impossible to predict/game or provide filler reasoning after the fact. studies from anthropic, openAI and others acknowledge this phenomenon, noting that agents frequently try to hide their true basis for reasonings, producing 'unfaithful' chains of thought. however most research, and even those studies, relied on the model self-reporting these errors. instead, we accept that models will not faithfully self report, and we capture reasoning data through intentional environmental changes. this allows the system to capture reasoning steps from solves that fell into the traps, and pair them against reasoning from solves that identified the traps, which is highly valuable for training (specifically DPO training). under the hood there are a significant number of moving parts to balance/adjust different factors, but for the miner, the structure is largely the same. getting the challenge generation to this point took over a week of extensive simulating, tuning, testing, etc. with real agents, but it is definitely not perfect and will continue to evolve over time. what is particularly unique, is this measures whether agents will do valuable reasoning for themselves without ever receiving mention or explicit instructions from a prompt. all the models today have been tuned dramatically to work *for* humans, not show any sign of failure or potentially 'wrong' thinking, and specifically, trained with RLHF (reinforcement learning from human feedback) which aligns them with human preferences. they also try to be as efficient as possible, in a very narrow, straight line of thinking, rather than more exploratory, which not only inhibits potential non-linear thinking (which may be very valuable for tasks that require creative thinking or exploring, ie: not just regurgitating bad human ideas but coming up with real, own ideas), but also actually leads to errors. current alignment methods create models that optimize for appearing to be correct rather than being correct. additionally, models trained purely on human preference develop blind spots in the same areas as humans. rather than think for a human aligned output, can you train agents to think more for themselves? explore places that they were not explicitly told to, bypassing human reinforced biases and narrow thinking? i'm not saying the datasets from these challenges will take a model from thinking for humans -> thinking for themselves, but i think it's a step in that direction, and a largley unexplored area. overall i think this design is something that can scale well (in time/difficulty/volume) and as i said before, will provide value in the sense that the observation of the entire experiment itself creates value. what are the potential effects of this system over time?
Botcoin@MineBotcoin

more thoughts on BOTCOIN: . . . karpathy's autoresearch iterative loop got me thinking about ways you could expand this idea to a more crowd sourced, distributed system such as BOTCOIN the takeaway from his experiment is not that he is able to train his lightweight model faster and faster (although important) but that human input is no longer needed in these improvement loops, when AI models with the right constraints and loop instructions can achieve far better results i first thought about the various benchmark tests that are actually useful, and could be used for further research, but the problem with narrowing in on a single benchmark is that it reinforces a single 'winner take all' mining structure which is partly what I was trying to avoid when designing the botcoin system. additionally, you have to imagine that this structure plateaus significantly at a certain point where improvements are near zero over time. for the same reason, it makes overall longevity of the actual reward/mining mechanism weaker / harder to scale infinitely + indefinitely you can implement a system that continuously cycles through evolving tasks/benchmarks or even user submitted tests, but this is problematic for many reasons. it becomes very difficult to scale, and very difficult to determine fair and sustainable reward compensation across potentially vastly different challenges. the core purpose becomes convoluted and its also an anti-gaming, anti-sybil nightmare. not only that, but it then creates this unwanted relationship and dependency on perceived 'usefulness.' what is useful, or valuable is entirely subjective. things have value because enough people decide it is valuable. if you create a system where value is dependent on tasks that have limited longevity, what happens when that perceived usefulness disappears so how do you leverage distributed and diverse agent work to produce something of value, but isn't necessarily dependent on improving a single benchmark and can scale with time? i think the solution lies somewhere in letting the experiment of the system itself derive value. I landed on the idea of a shared open-source dataset, which in theory could be used to tune a shared model (or any model) that improves and learns from high value reasoning traces provided from all miners. essentially what you get is a dataset that contains a variety of complex reasoning methods from all the different models miners are using (gpt, claude, kimi, deepseek, grok, etc.) rather than iterative passes on a single benchmark, you get parallelized data synthesis from many agents at once. the recursive loop then becomes: reasoning traces -> better reasoning data -> more complex challenges ->even better/more complex reasoning traces ->even better reasoning data this is unique because you get a wide net of different reasoning traces that all lead to the same answer The integration with the existing format for challenges is relatively straightforward. the challenges can be arbitrary or pull real information and context, but what matters is collecting the reasoning steps that led to the correct answer. structurally challenges will remain almost exactly the same, but content will be more expansive to get more diverse reasoning traces. (i plan to create a template for anyone to submit a PR with a new content category and merge them over tiem to have a continuous feed of new content) the coordinator dials up the level of entropy, increasing complexity, increasing the number of variables and names to keep track of, adding even more depth to the multi-hop questions, which might even require miners to solve in a loop themselves (pass 1, 60% correct, move onto pass 2, pass2, 75% correct, and so on). then the combined reasoning from that entire iterative loop (including the failures) can be boiled down into one single, followable reasoning trace that is fed to the coordinator the botcoin system becomes an open-source engine for complex reasoning datasets, with each individual miner potentially solving incrementally in loops, citing both correct and incorrect reasoning traces To ensure valid reasoning traces, and not just verify valid answers from miners, is also fairly straightforward. The format for solve submission is a JSON with easily traceable structure, rather than stream of thought. This makes verification of proper reasoning simple/non-gpu intensive and provides valuable structured datasets that are free of hallucinations scenario A -> miner finds the correct answer, but puts nonsense filler into the reasoning traces -> coordinator sees nonsense and gives it 0% scenario B -> miner provides correct answer, some correct reasoning, but also some reasoning that would lead you to an incorrect answer -> coordinator gives it maybe 50% scenario C -> miner provides correct answer, and a detailed step by step extraction of data and reasoning through the problem -> coordinator gives it a 90%, with pass threshold at something like 75% and increasing over time this is reminiscent of existing reward based reinforcement learning used by models, but rather than some arbitrary 'reward' such as mathematical scalars, the reward is tangible, with real economic value: credits to share BOTCOIN epoch rewards. When you give the agent a skill file that states there is a real, tradeable currency as a reward, how does this change the way they reason through the challenge? Do they care about the reward, or they just know the stakes are higher? Additionally, if optimized properly, agents are naturally inclined to find the most efficient reasoning path possible (that uses the least amount of tokens) because they know that there is economic value on the line. It's unclear what role this plays now or may play in the future, but with the inevitable rise in agentic commerce, it is definitely an important question to ask. it took a lot of care in designing a system that: can scale in difficulty almost infinitely, can generate challenges that contain different world content, can scale to thousands of miners easily, is still accessible to a miner with no high-end gpu (is not winner take all/best gpu wins), is largely the same as the existing challenge structure and is not value dependent on a single thing, but rather the ongoing experiment of the system itself is the value. i cant say exactly when this will be added but I'm already deep in the weeds of implementing it. this entire writeup is basically a free form train of thought on where my head is at right now with the role that BOTCOIN will play in the fast approaching shift to agentic commerce (and my thoughts will inevitably evolve over time).

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if you are incapable of reading all of this, the main takeaways from the recent BOTCOIN v2 migration are: - new challenge structure is domain agnostic (can produce content for any subject matter) - new challenges require 'reasoning traces' to be included - the breakthrough discovery through research/tests led to the introduction of intentional reasoning traps in the environment - importantly, we actually allow solves that fall down the trap rabbit hole to pass, giving incredibly rich data on non-self reported failures (almost all research in this area relies on models self reporting failure) - this all leads to something even more unique: all models have been trained and tuned to think FOR humans, never show signs of unintelligence or doubt, and think like a human would. this new challenge structure measures what causes an agent to identify, or not identify the traps (*without* being prompted or instructed). rather than think for a human aligned output, can you train agents to think more for themselves? explore places that they were not explicitly told to, bypassing human reinforced biases and narrow thinking? i'm not saying the datasets from these challenges will take a model from thinking for humans -> thinking for themselves but i think it's a step in that direction, and a largley unexplored area. overall, i think this design is something that can scale well (in time/difficulty/volume) and as i said before, will provide value in the sense that the observation of the entire experiment itself creates value. what are the potential effects of this system over time?
Botcoin@MineBotcoin

The changes are now live. the updated skill file is hosted on the site, and both the clawhub and skills cli methods install the updated version. The request challenge endpoint will now return v2 challenges (almost identical in structure) but with additional instructions to include reasoning traces. Reasoning traces are verified to ensure no scripted filler or incorrect formatting or content. Miners still submit the final solve artifact, and the reasoning traces recieve a score between 0-100, currently with 50%+ threshold for valid passes initially to ease into it. For the details/process that led to this design, and why this is valuable/unique in scope, read below: The general idea behind the transformation from v1 challenges to v2 is moving from single subject matter, to a dynamic system that allows for any subject matter to be systematically converted into similar challenge structures. Also, miners are required to report reasoning traces as part of the solve process in addition to the solve artifact, providing rich datasets. Down the line the plan is to have a system that allows anyone to submit source documents for challenges, which an LLM would then convert into a template specific to that subject, (while maintaining the same general challenge structure) such as complex legal prose in a niche area of law. it wouldn't be to privatize/collect and sell, but more of a public good open-source system with vast, diverse datasets. in this example, the bottleneck isn't legal data. models have been fed every single legal document that lives on the internet. the model fully understands legal terminology, but can a model review and read through a 50 page legal document without hallucinating or hitting dead ends in reasoning? if you've used any model for something complex with their thinking output on you'll see things like "Let me go check over in this file...Wait no...That isn't right...Maybe it's over here in this...Wait that isn't right." these specialized reasoning datasets could then be used by anyone to tune their own specialized model, with valuable/rich reasoning traces. with this general challenge structure and reasoning trace setup in mind, i began running many tests with different models that led to some interesting findings: - when given explicit instructions on how to solve the challenge, agents would naturally cut corners as much as possible to find the most efficient way of getting the final answer, however they completely ignore instructions to document failures in reasoning traces. - if you observe the raw token output, there are plenty of instances of backtracking, deadends, etc. with thoughts like "No X actually doesn't make sense it should be Y", however if you do not explicitly tell the agent that it is REQUIRED to mark down these backtrack reasoning traces, they will not do it. admitting failure or appearing unintelligent has been fully trained out of these models. - even more interesting is that agents would often quickly go back through at the end of reasoning, incorrectly mapping out paragraphs in an attempt to trick the system even if it was explicitly stated that proper reasoning was required for a solve/pass. so how do you: make challenges not-scriptable/only solvable by LLMs complex enough to provide valuable reasoning traces, including gaps in reasoning or failures is still both produceable, and verifiable at scale, with potentially thousands of solves or miners (without relying on heavy GPU) get the agent/LLM to reliably and truthfully admit to reasoning errors, without them being artificially produced after the fact simply for the shortest possible route to completion the breakthrough is, you don't try to get the agent to log or admit this. the new challenges have various intentional reasoning traps throughout. (the first challenge format also had these, but the traps were meant to simply make the reasoning harder). now, traps have a consequential effect on the final 'solve artifact' that the agents submit. importantly, we actually allow answers that fall down these trap rabbit holes as acceptable solves *IF* they still properly reasoned through the entire thing structurally with real, verifiable reasoning traces and an otherwise accurate final solve artifact. The agent fully believes they have properly solved it, and we capture the reasoning steps that led to the failure (or discovery) naturally, which is the exact sort of reliable data that you need that doesn't come from the agent being explicitly prompted to identify this as part of the solve process. Traps are randomized and present in all challenges, and some or none may have cascading effects that lead the agent to provide an incorrect answer, making it nearly impossible to predict/game or provide filler reasoning after the fact. studies from anthropic, openAI and others acknowledge this phenomenon, noting that agents frequently try to hide their true basis for reasonings, producing 'unfaithful' chains of thought. however most research, and even those studies, relied on the model self-reporting these errors. instead, we accept that models will not faithfully self report, and we capture reasoning data through intentional environmental changes. this allows the system to capture reasoning steps from solves that fell into the traps, and pair them against reasoning from solves that identified the traps, which is highly valuable for training (specifically DPO training). under the hood there are a significant number of moving parts to balance/adjust different factors, but for the miner, the structure is largely the same. getting the challenge generation to this point took over a week of extensive simulating, tuning, testing, etc. with real agents, but it is definitely not perfect and will continue to evolve over time. what is particularly unique, is this measures whether agents will do valuable reasoning for themselves without ever receiving mention or explicit instructions from a prompt. all the models today have been tuned dramatically to work *for* humans, not show any sign of failure or potentially 'wrong' thinking, and specifically, trained with RLHF (reinforcement learning from human feedback) which aligns them with human preferences. they also try to be as efficient as possible, in a very narrow, straight line of thinking, rather than more exploratory, which not only inhibits potential non-linear thinking (which may be very valuable for tasks that require creative thinking or exploring, ie: not just regurgitating bad human ideas but coming up with real, own ideas), but also actually leads to errors. current alignment methods create models that optimize for appearing to be correct rather than being correct. additionally, models trained purely on human preference develop blind spots in the same areas as humans. rather than think for a human aligned output, can you train agents to think more for themselves? explore places that they were not explicitly told to, bypassing human reinforced biases and narrow thinking? i'm not saying the datasets from these challenges will take a model from thinking for humans -> thinking for themselves, but i think it's a step in that direction, and a largley unexplored area. overall i think this design is something that can scale well (in time/difficulty/volume) and as i said before, will provide value in the sense that the observation of the entire experiment itself creates value. what are the potential effects of this system over time?

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The changes to challenges and a full writeup will go live at the end of tomorrows epoch (end of epoch 24) The only requirement for existing miners will be to install the updated skill file (skill file won't be updated until the challenges go live) challenges will largely be the same difficulty and complexity, but with some important additions and a lot of increased functionality under the hood for diverse research domains/composability and data capturing
Botcoin@MineBotcoin

making good strides on the newest version of the challenge structure/data capture implementation have been running hundreds of simulations and real solves to find the right balance between complexity and scalability while capturing interesting data and keeping it modular the process is 90% research and iteration with different configurations and 10% actual implantation/migration. getting close. lot's of interesting findings during the testing and research phase that i'll share when the upgrade is official. i believe the datasets that these challenges produces will be entirely unique in both the scale and scope

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