🏴Ray🏴

@Jaypee983726303 Indeed it is good to know how God works, or else people easily fall into heresies or at a drop of the hat become disbelievers due to words. I think I’ve shown that I know how God works as well, as an understanding of him in and out of that regard. Thank you for the discourse.

@RayVs_World It's not at all. It's good to understand how God works , to better understand him.

Jesus was not perfect. He flipped tables in anger at the temple. He cursed a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season. He got frustrated with his disciples and called people faithless. He said he didn’t know the Hour, only God knows. He ate, slept, prayed, and depended on God. That’s not perfection. That’s human. Perfection doesn’t get angry. Perfection doesn’t lack knowledge. Perfection doesn’t rely on another. So be real, are these the qualities of God or the signs of a man sent by God?

@Jaypee983726303 It wouldn’t be of use to him because God is the only non contingent existence there is. God doesn’t rely So if he dint create existence because he wanted to then the other option is because he had to, thus making God reliant on creation. Thats why I said such ideas are slippery

@RayVs_World After God created everything He said that they were all good. That's fulfillment. Yes he can still be if chosen not to create but of what use will that be to him? He didn't just create cause he wanted to. He poured himself into the creation and demands it gives him back de glory

@robmcallen9565 I don’t take it as that due to it saying once sin is fully grown showing a persistence or indulging. But that’s semantics. Either way you have yet to answer my question about Jesus. Did he die for original sin, just personal sins, or both?

@RayVs_World Not persistent, one sin

I always ask Christians … if children are a gift from God , why are so many children born with serious congenital diseases that make them suffer and then kills them after a few days, putting the parents in serious agony? In what meaningful sense is that a gift?

@robmcallen9565 To put verse 15 into layman’s terms it’s saying when one gives in to the inclination to sin then sin(personal) is acted out. Persistent indulgence in sin leads to damnation.

@robmcallen9565 Desire is personal sin or sin of the flesh as Christian’s say. Like I said personal sin is not original sin. So did Jesus die so that Original sin can be forgiven or did he die only for personal sins as you claim. The Christian belief is both.

@Jaypee983726303 I never said you did, I likened it. If God didn’t create it does him no good nor bad. God created humanity because he wanted to not because he needed something in order to feel justified in his being or a sense of accomplishment(fulfillment.) This easily leads to a contingent god

@RayVs_World I didn't say God needs something to express love . But come to that if God doesn't create what good does it do him? Why did God create humans in the first place last me even ask you? He may not need all of those but he has all of those to have his glory established (fulfilment)

@robmcallen9565 This is personal sins. I’m talking about original sin. Youre arguing with your doctrine. I’m not misrepresenting. It’s right there in your face. You are bringing verses that don’t deal with what I’m talking about and try to pass them off as they do. Personal sins=\= original sin

@RayVs_World You're not defending Christian beliefs. You're misrepresenting them James 1

@Jaypee983726303 This would imply that God is contingent in of himself on creation to gain and feel joy or fulfillment as you put it. This is a problem that can stem from applying human esque conditioning to the creator. It’s like someone arguing that God needed something to express love.

@RayVs_World Yes. If not he won't create them. As a creative you'd understand your creation gives you more joy and fulfillment than food alone can. It fuels your inner being.

@Jaypee983726303 So you believe that contingent existence feeds God in a way?

@RayVs_World It's figurative. And yes God does eat praises and worship , that's why the living beings and the 24 elders are in his presence 24/7 praising and worshiping him, with the angels as well.

@robmcallen9565 Their sin lead to the creation of the unworthiness every human is born with known as original sin. I can’t believe I’m defending Christian beliefs against a Christian. So yes people are condemned for personal sins but also for the original sin. The whole point of the sacrifice

@RayVs_World They were banished from the garden of Eden was for their own sin. NOT original sin

@robmcallen9565 Didn’t say it did, mind you I said they don’t transgress against God meaning they don’t fall into sin. So would they enter heaven?

@RayVs_World Sin doesn't just happen with interaction with people

@robmcallen9565 Even if I took what you said. Let’s see if you are consistent. If a hypothetical person was born and lived a secluded life away from people which resulted in him not transgressing on God but also not confessing Jesus is their Lord and savior will he go to heaven?

@robmcallen9565 “We are not condemned by original sin” The Bible says original sin made humanity unworthy of heaven thus God kicked out Adam and Eve which resulted in the requirement of a divine sacrifice to fix. Bible doesn’t agree with you.

@robmcallen9565 There is nothing to misconstrue. It’s just that you are hesitant in acknowledging that the original sin makes humanity unworthy of heaven while saying we are born with original sin because the implications leads to a slippery slope.

@robmcallen9565 It says it clearly. Original sin is a state of being that causes separation from God. Next photo a state of separation of God that makes humanity unworthy of heaven. How does one become worthy? By accepting the divine sacrifice of Jesus. The entailment is clear as day.

@robmcallen9565 With all due respect you’re just splitting hairs.

@RayVs_World A tenancy towards brokenness to God. Not that you are born with that relationship already broken

@Jaypee983726303 Why do you think I asked if you actually meant what you said? Because many people say things literally. It means he doesn’t share his distinction of being, but I guess to you it means he doesn’t share his food.(I had to. You walked into that one.)

@RayVs_World Have u heard about figures of speech? When I say he eats worship and praise it means what he takes as his glory hence his food. When he said He will never share His glory what do you think it means?

@robmcallen9565 It literally does. It’s just what I sent goes into what the entailment of this state of being actually is.

@RayVs_World No it doesn't

@Jaypee983726303 Words have meanings. You saying God does these things? He “eats” and that worship and praise is his “food.”

@RayVs_World You sound like a moslem. Again have you seen God before to know he doesn't eat?

@robmcallen9565 No it doesn’t. It’s talking about being born in faith. That baptism is being “born again” akin to a little child, in terms of surrender, obedience, trust, etc. This is Jesus saying to his diciples what qualities you must possess. That’s why the KJV says unless you convert.

@RayVs_World It's shows the little children are innocent