RxFlow Robotics

Settler gangs doing pogroms is not “a couple of idiots.” It’s organized gangs supported by the state. Children facing military courts is not the policy of any tolerant country. Christians in Palestine overwhelmingly claim that it’s treatment by Israel that makes them leave. I’m sure it’s better in actual Israel—but there’s no reason to exclude Israel’s behavior in occupied territories. Or indeed the mass killings and demolitions happening now in Lebanon.

You are going to find a couple videos of idiots being idiots. That’s not representative at all. I can tell you have never been if you based your judgement on extremely rare incidents. You will not be able to find the type of religion freedom people enjoy in Israel anywhere else in Middle East. If you dig even deeper in history, you would actually find most of Middle East countries were not even Muslim before. What do you think happened to all those non Muslims? I will give you a few guesses.

if you agree that israel is committing a genocide and is an apartheid state, then separating this state from jews in the us is probably a winning message and combating antisemitism, dont you think?

There are plenty of video recordings of Christians being spit on in Israel. More importantly, the settlers are organizing pogroms with the support of the Israeli state, for abusing and killing Palestinians and stealing their land. Not to mention just mass killings in Lebanon. Israel is a terrorist state, currently in a killing spree mania.

If you are dumb enough to believe antisemitic propaganda. Anyone who has even spend time in the Middle East knows Israel is by far the most free country for people of any background. Any other country in Middle East, unless you are cis male Muslim, you are second class citizen. In Israel, you would still hear mosques blasting calls for prayer everyday. I dare you to try to preach any religion besides Islam on the street of in any other Middle East country besides Israel and let’s see how long you last.

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer It could be a soul, it could be some field generated by neuronal biology. Either way, it’s more than just a computation.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer Well a neuron, and a mathematical model of a neuron which behaves in exactly the same way. One has consciousness , the other does not. I see your argument , but unless you introduce something like a soul into it, I can’t see how one can have consciousness and the other can’t.

Everybody who thinks ai is conscious has to do a mandatory from scratch transformer implementation. There are only floats and multiplications.

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer Ok man. You don’t seem to get the distinction between an actual neuron and a caricature of a neuron drawn on paper. I think we’ve exhausted this discussion.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer No neuron in your brain feels anything either… all it is , is an analog matrix multiplier

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer You’re still trying to save the nonsense about the experience of red being a computation. And the argument is the same: show me what that computation is. Since the computation alone is the cause, you should show from computational arguments alone that experience results.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer There is zero evidence that new ones in a petri dish can cause consciousness. And yet, here we are. The argument is can real neurons be replaced with virtual neurons in maths, and consciousness continues to work.

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer Input to Output manipulation is not evidence that AI experiences anything. That was done by my laptop previously.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer The evidence for today’s LLMs being conscious is simply look at their output. ‘They think therefore they are’, as Descartes might say

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer No. The argument is that it’s not computation alone that leads to consciousness. I specifically claimed today that arguing that LLMs on GPU farms are conscious is like claiming your laptop is conscious. Possible, but no evidence for it—while there’s evidence for conscious brains

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer Ok so consciousness can only exist in meat analog computers, and never on silicon digital computers . That’s a fair argument , without evidence.

@Destiny_Chiild @shaunmmaguire @hasanthehun Yeah, Israel, famous for not attacking Egypt! Talk about retarded arguments. Like I said: Israel is a murderous state and the lead cause of instability in the region. Any country that associates with Israel is morally soiled and abandons any claims to civilizational values.

@RxflowR @shaunmmaguire @hasanthehun Saying that Israel attacks its neighbors- when those neighbors are its Arab allies like Egypt and Jordan- is peak retard. Obvious you've never spent time in the M.E. and are grossly ignorant.

@Destiny_Chiild @shaunmmaguire @hasanthehun Israel’s murderous spree is so morally reprehensible that Israel’s defenders can’t help but look retarded—like you do here.

@RxflowR @shaunmmaguire @hasanthehun Whatever Mohammad.

@Destiny_Chiild @shaunmmaguire @hasanthehun The main cause of instability in the region is in fact Israel. Bibi lobbied to destroy Iraq, took credit for installing the current moderate headchopper in Syria and obviously wants to destroy Iran. Israel should focus on killing fewer children and stealing less land instead.

@RxflowR @shaunmmaguire @hasanthehun That's funny, as someone who's spent time in the region, I thought the main geopolitical conflict was the Persians vs the Arabs. Exactly what the Saudis and Emirates think. And Israel seems to have great relations w/ all its Arab neighbors except Hamas and Hezbollah.

@Destiny_Chiild @shaunmmaguire @hasanthehun What’s blackmailing us is Israel’s murderous obsession with destroying most states around it. We were doing just fine with ignoring Iran. Now Israel’s war is the cause of higher gas prices, killed US soldiers—not to mention killed Iranian children.

@RxflowR @shaunmmaguire @hasanthehun You're too much of a clown to understand the econ consequences of allowing Iran to blackmail the world.

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer No they would not, unless implemented in a specific substrate. The entire claim against “experience is computation” is that experience is substrate specific. It’s not a portable virtual thing. It depends on specific instantiation on an actual substrate.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer Ok let’s assume that there is something we don’t know …. An unknown x properly that is needed for consciousness . We find it , model it in maths, and it forms next AI gen models. Would those models be conscious ?

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer We can’t even fully model water. Physicists are begging for bigger colliders to explore matter. Claiming that we’re modeling correctly everything is just absurd.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer Well There are only two options. Either consciousness is computable, or is not computable. If not computable, then we must have something happening inside our brains that is not able to be modeled in a computer. What inside our brains is not able to be modeled?

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer Unclear. People in touch with their feelings may very well do worse at predicting compared to someone doing pure statistical analysis. Experience and computation are still different categories.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer "Consciousness is not required at all to predict the next word." Would a word predictor be better with or without Consciousness?

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer Yeah, it’s the “If” part that’s the absurd part, the category error part.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer All a LLM is a huge multi billion array of weights. By configuring those weights, you can make anything that is computable. If consciousness is computable, then the training mechanisms we have right now, will find the combination that works.

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer Consciousness is not required at all to predict the next word. Why in the world would that be required? It’s just a statistical model trained on text. Experience and consciousness doesn’t even belong there.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer IF consciousness is required to predict the next word, then a neural net will form a model that has a degree of consciousness, in order to predict the next word.

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer Nobody is claiming anything about understanding one way or another. We’re discussing experience and your absurd claim that it’s purely a result of computation.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer You think the code inside a chess computer understands chess? You could run a chess computer computation by hand, and not know how to play chess, or even understand what you're computing.

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer Forget our minds. If computation is the essential ingredient, then a pen and paper computation will experience red? This “experience is computation” view is just absurd.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer "I’m sorry, but we can process signals without having any sort of experience." Our minds are a combination of both training, and instinct, they have much hard wiring genetically built in from birth. AI do not have this. But I don't believe this is required for consciousness.

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer Nonsense. You can do the computation by hand and you will not experience red.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer When the signals leave the visual cortex, they are no longer the images that left our eyes. The signals now are abstract, combinations of which form the 'RED' experience, that we feel. But, mark my word, it is just neural net processing. Computers model it using maths...

@tonywestonuk @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer I’m sorry, but we can process signals without having any sort of experience. If I multiply the required matrices by hand, I will not experience red even if I am doing the same computation the brain is doing.

@RxflowR @cgarciae88 @lucasmeijer We experience 'Red', in much the same way AI experences red. The receptors in our eyes are each connected to a neuron, which passes into a matrix of neurons in the visual processing areas of our brain. occipital lobe.