@kellyma_michael @stephenfgordon I honestly don’t think she wants independence. She wants a legacy of getting a pipeline and other concessions from Ottawa.
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Tom Stringham
1.5K posts
@TomStringham @stephenfgordon Yes, because she knows that that would result in her political annihilation.
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Provincial referendum questions get more and more weaselly over time.
Separatists know in their heart of hearts that if they asked a clear question, they'd be crushed. So they play play stupid games with opaque multiple-choice referenda.
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@JeromyYYC The vote is happening, instead of complaining just campaign for remain.
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Voting on whether to have a vote is a ridiculous lack of provincial leadership.
Calgary is a globally connected city. Separation uncertainty is costing us jobs.
We have real work to do: building homes, improving public safety, fixing infrastructure, growing our economy, and making life better.
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@Citizen004 @nspector4 Wait, what? The question is remain, or start the process for a second referendum, which would be on separation.
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"No. Two options: Remain a Province in Canada. Or start the process to secede."
@nspector4
[If journalists can't even get the basics correct, this is going to be a wild disinformation fueled ride with no touchstone of accuracy.]
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@acoyne You’ll have to tell the courts that there’s no legal process required under the constitution! They seem to think differently.
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This is a good point. Voting for a referendum in the referendum on a referendum does not actually trigger a referendum.
It would just “commence the legal process required under the Canadian Constitution to hold a binding provincial referendum on whether or not Alberta should separate from Canada.”
NB there is no “legal process required under the Canadian Constitution” to hold a “binding referendum” on separation. The constitution makes no mention of either separation or referendums. And any referendum on the subject could not possibly be binding on anyone. Least of all the premier.
Carrie Tait@CarrieTait
This is not a referendum-on-a-referendum. The options are: 1) Stay in Canada. 2) Start the legal process to hold a binding separation referendum. In #2, there's no promise of a binding separation referendum. But a binding separation referendum is way closer than AB is now.
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@jennAA2014 @Citizen004 The second is capital formation, just weirdly labeled. If Trudeau had governed well or had just been mediocre I don’t think we’re in this situation. He governed really poorly and central Canada kept voting him back in.
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@Citizen004 So you think the federal government 100% controls inflation, no one or nothing else impacts is and separatism is because of inflation and Real GDP per Capita Growth?
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@nanytrulz @Citizen004 @andrew_leach What would do the most good now is prominent people in Ontario and Quebec acknowledging the grievances to frame the conversation. We are locked in a cycle of central Canadians being dismissive of grievances, further aggravating the aggrieved Albertans, leading to more dismissal.
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@nanytrulz @Citizen004 @andrew_leach More to it than that. Parliament could repeal the grandfather clause unilaterally on a simple vote, the same way they strengthened it in 2022. It’s within the realm of possibility and CPC should campaign on it, along with expanding the HoC to dilute the senatorial clause.
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The sovereigntists should put this on a loop. They don't even need sound. The Laurentian elite telling Albertans to be grateful and shut up.
youtu.be/Kn77G6tlpso?si…
YouTube
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@Citizen004 @andrew_leach I’m in exactly the same camp. The grievances are all valid but when you game it out, separation would leave Alberta worse off. What rankles me personally is AB voters having a 20%+ discount on their votes in the HoC relative to QC+small provinces; not to mention the Senate.
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@andrew_leach I am interested in the framing of the debate, the strategies, and assessing what I think the effect will be on swing voters — the critical cohort. I try to do that objectively. But I hope swing voters will vote to remain - because that is the best outcome all things considered.
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@Graham_Mark_E I would say it’s more because people actually went door to door getting signatures this time. Without the petitions this would have fizzled as many times before.
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Alberta separatism is hugely unpopular. The only reason a referendum for a referendum (not a mistype) will even take place is because the rest of us let a tiny group clickbait themselves with our reactions into a semblance of a movement. Don't interact with nonsense online.
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@EScrimshaw Separation is not actually on the ballot. The ballot was requested by petition. And she is campaigning for the vote to fail so that there is not a (constitutional) referendum. So running with the promise of a constitutional referendum would not make sense.
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If Danielle Smith would like to use a Parliamentary majority to call a referendum that puts separation on the ballot, it should be with a parliamentary majority earned on the promise of a referendum
Wendigo@driftingwendigo
@EScrimshaw The referendum would be the mandate. That's the whole point.
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@stphnmaher I mean I think that’s the idea of having a vote on whether to do a referendum that might change the constitutional order. A referendum election would work but a referendum referendum gives an even clearer mandate
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The way democracy works, ideally, is that you tell people what you intend to do before the election, especially things that might change the constitutional order.
Rick Hewat@kidrickhewat
@stphnmaher Why does it have to be the way Quebec did it? Things are different. Albertans get to decide not the Laurent proletariat. 😉
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@EScrimshaw Generally lunatic fringes are not the sort of things that vanish by being told no
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Someone risking the breakup of Canada doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt just because they refuse to tell their lunatic fringe no
Dakota Jeffery-Petts 🍁@JefferyPetts
I think separatism is stupid and totally superficial but saying this about Premier Smith is atrocious. She's stuck between a rock and a hard place and is navigating it as best she can as an open and admitted federalist. I've learned to give her a break and others should too
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@DimitrisSoudas Why didn’t he request a legislature vote in the application statement though? Why did he sign his name to a statement that said “we propose a referendum”?
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May I offer a Fact check of the fact check? 👇🏻
Alberta’s former deputy premier, Thomas Lukasuk, is accusing the UCP government of preventing the “Forever Canadian” petition from being voted on in the legislature.
Lukasuk has always maintained that he wanted to see a vote on the question take place in the Alberta legislature, before the end of the spring session on Friday.
globalnews.ca/news/11844423/…
Rebel News Canada@RebelNews_CA
Alberta fact check: Dimitri Soudas falsely claims Lukaszuk petition was meant for legislature vote, not referendum The claim now circulating on CTV panels — that the petition was only ever intended for a legislative vote — leaves out a fairly important detail: the actual petition application. rebelne.ws/4nMJymq
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@DLeBlancNB To that end, your government can unilaterally repeal the grandfather clause to get us closer to rep by pop; please do.
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Canada’s government strongly believes that the interests of Albertans and all Canadians are best served when we work together. As one example, Canada and Alberta are now moving forward with a landmark agreement that gives investors certainty and unlocks the full potential of Alberta’s resources in both clean and conventional energy. With this agreement, Prime Minister Carney and Premier Smith are demonstrating that cooperative federalism works — and delivers results.
As we take note of Premier Smith’s address this evening, we remain focused on building a stronger Canada for all, in full partnership with Alberta and to the benefit of all Albertans and all Canadians.
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@wut000999888 @LukaszukAB @Bratt_world I don’t think anyone thought a petition created a requirement. It just requested a referendum
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@TomStringham @LukaszukAB @Bratt_world But by not adopting his question, the government is conceding that his petition does not require a referendum after all
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The word out there is that in 30 minutes the Premier will be announcing a separatist referendum question that is not the #ForeverCanadian question.
The Premier now acknowledges that the Forever Canadian question is not intended for a referendum, so she drafted her own.
#ableg
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@wut000999888 @LukaszukAB @Bratt_world Lukaszuk’s question would have left separation as an option, this puts that further away.
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@TomStringham @LukaszukAB @Bratt_world And yet that is not the question on the referendum, so it’s irrelevant
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@LukaszukAB @Bratt_world You chose the policy/legislative option, yes, but the policy you explicitly proposed was a referendum.
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@LukaszukAB @Bratt_world To be clear, you and hundreds of thousands of others signed a statement that read “we as represented by the signatory and applicant below propose a referendum …”
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@CStiles83 @andrew_leach @OrbitStudios And the smaller issue is unreasonable people whose word isn’t worth anything because they scold their political opponents even when they agree with them
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@andrew_leach @OrbitStudios I think the bigger issue is that the bar is so low for the UCP and the CPC right now that you’re praising what is just basic diplomacy, not something to go out of your way to applaud.
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@OrbitStudios Conservative support for Canada is important in Alberta right now. Sorry if you don't see that.
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