Waffle

@tscottme @ThoughtfulSaint Your false philosophical premise made you think we reject the bible and the god of the bible. You just dont like how we interpret the bible.

@ThoughtfulSaint Look up Xeno's Paradox. Philosophers once convinced themselves that it was impossible to walk across a room by adopting a false premise. LDS rejects Trinity, then rejects how the Trinity works, then rejects the Bible & God of the Bible. because it doesn't meet their expectation.

Because intelligent people care about logic. 1) Jesus is God 2) God cannot die 3) Jesus died This is classic logical contradiction. Courageous people try to resolve contradictions instead of running away from them. And just asserting they resolved this long ago is not an argument.

@CwC_16 @ThoughtfulSaint We do. Jesus was a god as a spirit before he was born in the flesh. This is prob a stupid semantic argument backlash. Usually starts when people misinterpret our view in the worst possible way, use that to make assumptions, and proclaim us heretics by said assumptions.

@ThoughtfulSaint Clarifying question - do LDS not believe that Jesus was a god in any form until after his resurrection?

@dttpeople @LoganMPierce1 nice attempt at interpreting scripture, but Joseph Smith did it better. Probably because he had revelation, you know, like a real prophet.

1st heaven in the bible simply means sky: "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven." Gen 1:20 Are birds flying in actual heaven? No. 2nd heaven is beyond that in outer space. Sun, moon ect: "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night" Gen 1:14 3rd heaven is what Paul was talking about. It's the only actual "heaven", as in heaven vs hell.

If Mormons just said these things up front. I wouldn't agree, but at least I'd respect the forthrightness. Instead Mormons play word games. If they are simply ashamed of these beliefs, why believe them! Either be proud and upfront or abandon shameful beliefs.

@japan_nobunaga Thanks, but in matters of discipline, I am still a student, so I humbly share the wisdom that has been shared with me. I hope you enjoy your time in America, friend.

@Wafflewarf ふむ、そなたの言う通り、これは己を律する心の戦いであったか。深き洞察、まこと感服いたすでござる。

A restaurant in America handed me a cup of soda. Then the waiter said two words and walked away. "Free refills." I sat in silence. I understood the gravity of it. This was a trial of endurance, set by the establishment, to test the spirit of the customer. To accept free and then leave anything behind would shame my ancestors. They were watching. I felt them watching. So I drank. I refilled. I drank. I refilled. The machine and I became one. An hour passed. Then two. The ice ran out. My hands shook. A small child at the next table pointed at me and asked his mother a question. She pulled him away. At cup fifteen I could no longer feel my teeth. At cup eighteen I began to see sounds. I did not stop. A samurai does not retreat from "free." This was no longer about soda. This was about who I am. At cup nineteen the manager came out. He gently took the cup from my hands and said, "sir, you can go home." I had lost. I bowed to him and left, sloshing with every step. In America, how many refills is the winning number? Tell me, so the next man knows when to stop.

Make sure to take your daily dose of Japanese Twitter 20mg to remedy any effect caused by doom-scrolling.

The Book of Mormon is the word of God and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.

@GuyInco15542744 Assuming they actually prayed about it, Their concepts of our church beliefs are mostly incorrect anyways. Why would God give a positive answer on misinformation? The well is already poisoned

Critics: the Bible is all of Gods word. He doesn’t say anything outside it. Same critic: God told me Mormonism is wrong, why won’t the Latter Day Saints believe me when I say that. Can’t imagine why

@JS_StrngstSldr It is unfortunatly a very tight space. Like unto a dish.

The Church must be behind this...

@SwissArmySpoon1 @surskitmaxxing @realldslion @AnneOfTheBooks You really think David was singing about the Bible? His Word isn't just the Bible. Its all the teachings and prophesy and blessings He gives through His Spirit. His Word is the Gospel, a promise of everlasting life through Jesus Christ.

@Wafflewarf @surskitmaxxing @realldslion @AnneOfTheBooks Psalm 138:2 You have magnified Your word above all Your name. God thinks highly of His own word. Mormons do not.

I hate to break it to @AnneOfTheBooks , but if the Bible is her standard, then the Bible fails as well.

@surskitmaxxing @realldslion @AnneOfTheBooks The Holy Bible being treated as absolute, all-encompassing, and infallible is idol worship.

@realldslion @AnneOfTheBooks Can you see why Christians wouldn’t be interested in a religion that defends itself by tearing down their holy book?

@Liberty53k "No revelation can add or take away scripture" is false doctrine to discourage the Spirit in the last days. God sent the Holy Spirit so all may have a witness of Christ, that they may also testify of Him, and that God may speak through them. Is God's words not scripture?

@Wafflewarf The written word of God is the arbiter of truth for all personal revelation, spiritual discernment, or any prophecy. When I’ve heard God… there was no revelation adding to scripture… this is what LDS are saying and what I’m talking about

You can only read ONE Bible translation for the rest of your life. Which one are you picking?

@nicoraytruth There is a time for one and a time for the other. But we are yet mortal and the thorn in our sides may be the humble trials of daily life until we are called for it, in this life or the next. Alma can relate.

I want the gospel of fire, and I want the gospel of radical love, and I have stopped believing I have to choose. I want to be the lion of Brigham Young and the tenderness of Francis in the same hour. I want the voice that clears the temple with a whip and the voice that kneels in the dust beside the woman everyone else came to stone. Because that was one man. That was the same mouth that said neither do I condemn you and go and sin no more, in the same breath, without softening either half, and almost no one can hold that sentence whole. We keep breaking it in two. We take the half we can live with and we build a whole church around it. That is the failure I see everywhere I look. A denomination finds the fire and loses the mercy, and it becomes hard, exact, correct, and cold, a people who have the truth and would never think to wash your feet with it. Or it finds the mercy and loses the fire, and it becomes soft, formless, endlessly affirming, a people so afraid to wound that they will let you walk off a cliff smiling. Both of these are amputations. Both of them call their missing limb a virtue. The hard church calls its coldness conviction. The soft church calls its cowardice love. And neither one is the thing itself, because the thing itself was never a balance struck between two weaknesses. It was two strengths held at full strength at the same time. Radical orthopraxy and radical love, both at maximum, neither one apologizing to the other. That is what I am looking for and rarely find. Not a moderate church, not a reasonable middle, not a thermostat set carefully between hot and cold. I want the furnace and the field hospital under one roof. I want to be told the truth by someone who would also die for me, ferocity and tender mercy from the same hands, the demand and the embrace arriving together, because that is the only place the demand can be borne and the only thing that makes the embrace worth anything. A love that asks nothing of you does not actually believe you are capable of anything. And a truth that will not stoop to carry you is not the truth Christ taught. My spiritual home is the church that refuses to put them down, that holds the whip and the basin in the same two hands and never once pretends it has to choose.

@Liberty53k @TheGermanicist @JoshuaBarzon God's Spiritual witness its the ultimate witness, above any philosophy or persuasion or appeal to proof. Recieving revelation for others is a dangerous claim. In honesty, how are you sure it was Gods voice and not mens persuasion justified by scripture interpretation?

@Wafflewarf @TheGermanicist @JoshuaBarzon I’m not a prophet — but His sheep hear his voice. My reply to @theGermanicist. God speaks to his people (& the devil too) — and at some point proof has to be shown. LDS have no foundation at all… it’s literally made up by demons Larping as God and/or lying people.

@Liberty53k @TheGermanicist @JoshuaBarzon By what authority do you have to recieve revelation for someone else? Are you claiming to be a prophet?

@TheGermanicist @JoshuaBarzon God told me something that it was the deceiver talking to you.

@Salt_n_Smoke @RandomRation Satan had already corrupted the priests to deny Christ, but by that time it was too late for Satan to undo it. God used Satans own efforts to ensure the Cross. Its 5d chess. You can see this in Job. Satan thinks he can outsmart God, and then God uses him arrogance agaisnt him.

@RandomRation The most satanic thing satan could do is not crucify Jesus. Then no atonement. That’s why God made a solid proof plan. Which was veiled. Hidden.

Mormons believe Satan knew about the plan of the cross. They believe Satan knowingly helped God fulfill his plan. Meanwhile in real life, in Israel in Matt 16:20-23, Jesus revealed the plan of the cross to His disciples and Peter opposed the cross, Jesus then calls Peter Satan!! Why? Because that is exactly what Satan would want to do if He knew the plan of the cross, to NOT crucify Jesus. That would be satanic. No Crucifixion, No atonement. That is why Jesus and the plan was veiled. Luke 9:43-45 Luke 18:31-34 Luke 24:45 1 Cor 2:7-10 2 Cor 3: 14-16

@AnneOfTheBooks @elderyab What you think mormons believe, isnt true. I'll agree with God on that.

@elderyab And I’ve done both. Asked God for wisdom, prayed to God to show me if Mormonism is true, and studied the Bible when discerning the claims of Mormonism. All of them gave me the same clear answer.

Mormons: Read the Book of Mormon and ask God if it’s true. The Bible: Read the Bible to see if what you’re being told is true. (Acts 17:11)

@nicoraytruth I wish everyone could experience God's Spirit and know He is there. Christ is real. Its literally life-changing. No amount of theology or history or debate is gonna shake me out of it. My faith is in a living God and His son Jesus Christ. /end.

@nicoraytruth Its been 15 years since the mission. I'm mostly recovered but still have some issues. I still stumble though my shortcomings. Not particularly righteous or have much influence. Yet, God finds occasion to share wisdom and visions. /

I am going to share an experience that is real. It's how I ended up seriously exploring the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in my 20s. I have told five people. A Mormon bishop's family in Colorado, a Roman Catholic priest, my wife, and a good friend. I don't tell others. When I told the bishop's family, they laughed because it is unbelievable to some. I understand that. I am telling it anyway. I was in law school, and I was under immense stress. I had started the semester after spending the summer in the holy land. I was split down the middle on what to believe. Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, a half dozen other faiths, reading everyone, believing no one. So I asked God to do the one thing I could not do for myself. I asked him to reveal himself. Not an argument. Not a sign I could explain away by morning. Himself. I was lying on the couch. I went under, and then I came back up fast, the way you do when something is wrong, because something was standing over my face. I could feel it. A real presence, right above me, close, deliberate. I opened my eyes and there was no one. The room was empty. And I was awake. This is the part people want to take from me, and I will not give it up. I was awake. Then it came. An embrace. My body physically moved. Not the feeling of being loved — the love itself, with arms. Love beyond love. I keep saying it because there is no better way, and there is no way at all. Every word I reach for falls short and keeps falling. Abundance beyond abundance. More than I had room to hold, and more coming, and more behind that. Ineffability and inexplicable. It was so much that it frightened me, not because it was dark, but because it was too much light for one body. I said stop. I actually said it. Stop. And it stopped. I have lived a whole life since that couch. It never came again. The answer to my prayer did not come as a name. It came as love. I asked a question of theological doctrine and I was answered in a different language entirely — the way a father answers a frightened child, not with a syllogism but by picking the child up. Whatever was in that room had no interest in winning my theological argument for me. It had an interest in me. Notice second that I could not produce it, sustain it, or survive it at full strength. I said stop and it did, and that tells you two things at once. It was greater than me, because it overwhelmed me. And it was gentle with me, because it relented the instant I asked. That combination, overwhelming power that yields to a single weak word from the person it is overwhelming, is the whole grammar of grace. Power that listens. Vastness that is also tender. I was not crushed. I was held, and then released because I asked to be, and the releasing was as much love as the holding. Notice third that it never returned, and I no longer think that is abandonment. I think it is the point. I was not given a practice or a feeling I could go back to and refill. I was given one thing, once, in the difficult stretch of my life, and then I was sent back to live. People want the experience to repeat so they can be sure of it. But a thing that happened once and changed the floor I stand on does not need to repeat. The fire on the mountain burns once. The man carries it down for the rest of his days. You cannot be argued out of love beyond love once it has been poured into your own body. There is no counterargument to a thing you were inside of. The doctrines kept shifting under me for years, because doctrines are downstream. But what came in through the experience itself, not through my reading, held — and it held precisely because I did not reason my way to it. It was given. Two things were given. The first was a closing of doors. I went onto that couch torn between Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, and the rest, and I did not get up neutral. I came up knowing that Islam is not true. That a number of the other faiths I had been weighing are not true either. Emphatically not. I cannot hand you the proof, because it never came to me as proof — it came the way the love came, given and total, not the conclusion of an argument but the removal of a question. The second was what stayed standing once the doors had closed. God is love. That is the whole of it. 1 John 4:16 became my compass: God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. Everything I have read since, every tradition I have walked into and out of, I have measured against that one line — because that one line did not come from a book. It came in through my own skin, on a couch, in the worst year of my life, and it has never moved. And this love survives in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This I believe. I don't know the rest, but that's good enough for me at this point in my life.