ChiWx378

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ChiWx378

ChiWx378

@WeatherIzzi

Chicago area meteorologist and dog dad to the best dog ever! All views expressed are my own.

Chicago, IL Katılım Şubat 2014
327 Takip Edilen815 Takipçiler
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Roger Edwards
Roger Edwards@SkyPixWeather·
-- About Recent SPC Forecast Performance -- The story below from NBC, and others on the less-than-2% outlook's tornado occurrences in KS, some of which also note the watchless tornadoes in Lower MI earlier this year, grossly oversimplify reality on the SPC forecast desk. They rely on a lot of idle speculation by people who haven't worked it and just don't know. I've done SPC outlooks for decades, and as usual, will be brutally honest here. I know how it works there, from the inside. Read and learn. These insights don't lend themselves to 10-second attention spans nor quick sound bites. So this is long. Don't "TLDR" this post if you really care about actually learning how it works. I'll put the bottom line here, near the top: Chances are there is ***no smoking gun***. That may not suit rage-baiting and click-baiting, but it's simply reality. That's the lede. Here's the rest... Why no smoking gun? Far too much goes into a forecast to lay "blame" at any one factor. Like it or not, bad forecasts happen. They always have and always will. The aim is to reduce them over years, knowing that some events are so localized and/or extreme that both human and computer forecasts can't always nail them down. That's reality. Until forecasters have extremely high-resolution sampling of the real atmosphere on scales storms form and operate (a few miles), even the most sophisticated models, both from traditional, physics-based and AI/statistical packages, will suffer sometimes with localized subtleties. Guess what's involved in forming a dryline storm here vs. somewhere else, amidst capping and modest broader left? You got it, friends, localized subtleties. Yes, observational balloon data were missing and are, in bulk, important to models. Several scientific papers have shown this. *Maybe* that mattered here. Maybe it did not. Satellite-derived data matter too, and often more. How important was the lack of radiosondes to this case on this day? We don't know. As Alan Gerard alludes in his quote in the NBC story: that needs to be studied (using data-denial experiments). Until then, it's speculation to say how much that altered output at any of many levels of the atmosphere, from models that *variably* and *incompletely* influenced the outlook's positioning here. *Numerous* models are examined every forecast cycle, especially early-arriving deterministic ones, ensembles, and newer/quickly computed AI packages that work off historic pattern recognition. How they may be affected by missing input data can vary from model to model and by data type. It can be such a dense black box that such effects are simply unknown to the forecasters. We're not, and cannot be, privy to every nook and cranny of their physics or statistical equations. Forecasters often notice and account for model biases, but where they come from can be quite complex and not just tied to one factor. Between that and diagnostics that should precede models, it can be a veritable firehose of information, on deadline. With time, experience, on-shift mentorship of the leads and senior outlookers, and training, forecasters get better at situationally prioritizing what to drink from that firehose, when, how, and why. It is simply impossible to examine every possible diagnostic and prognostic detail from every data source. Models are not all that go into a forecast. So do diagnostics: analyses of surface and upper-air data. The latter factually do have holes that may cause analysis to miss subtle features, but was that true here? We don't know yet. Other diagnostics, such as satellite and radar-indicated features, and intangibles such as reading, research, forecaster experience, and intuition with specific situations, also play a role. It's even more speculative, and likely inaccurate, to say the lack of greater staffing affected the outlooks in these cases so far. [That isn't to say it can't, or won't, the rest of the season.] Though I recently retired, and was not a participant in these forecasts, I do know the principals involved. Everyone who did the outlooks for the KS day were working normal 8-hour shifts and not overtime. If "exhaustion" or "fatigue" were factors, it comes simply from the nature of rotating shift work, which is documented to be unhealthy mentally and physically, and a known carcinogen. Don't knock it 'til you've done it. Yes, with two retirements last month, 5 openings (out of 10 positions or 50% vacant) are on the SPC outlook/mesoscale desk. That is unprecedented. They need to be permanently filled with full-time forecasters, stat! A lot of fill-in shifts by both managers (one of whom is an extremely sharp and highly experienced forecaster), and less-tenured forecasters, will be needed until those are filled. Results may vary. That won't help, and yes, it might hurt! But it's premature and speculative to pin any single forecast performance so far, or the rest of this season, just on that. Again, forecasts sometimes simply miss. SPC has a well-earned reputation for, and internally motivated standard of, excellence. Excellence is not synonymous with perfection. Even I had some bad forecast decisions I'd like to have back. ;-) Outlooks at SPC do not happen in a vacuum. One or two names may appear thereon, but it's a team forecast. Internal collaboration is required. External coordination with involved WFOs is strongly encouraged if major changes are being made to a previous outlook. Otherwise, there is not enough time to coordinate every part of every outlook line with every involved WFO, who themselves also are busy with other tasks. Every minute doing that is a minute not spent doing meteorology. So there must be a balance achieved on deadline. I don't know for sure here, but it is possible that the 2% and 5% tornado lines that drove the "MRGL" and "SLGT" areas were suggested by, or compromised with, the WFOs serving eastern KS. Only they and the SPC forecasters on duty could verify either way. And even everything I've typed is just a superficial, condensed summary of the outlook forecast process. I did thousands of them, both the graphics and long-form text discussions, so give me the benefit of the doubt here.
NBC News@NBCNews

The National Weather Service’s Storm Prediction Center did not anticipate a tornado threat for the Kansas City area, prompting concerns among some that ongoing changes to staffing and weather balloon releases at the NWS might be leaving forecasters in the dark about threats. nbcnews.com/weather/tornad…

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ChiWx378
ChiWx378@WeatherIzzi·
@TeamGodsFinger @NorthILWX Also, if there were convergence alone that axis and initiation there, the supercells would be moving east into a less favorable sig tor environment. it’s proved to be a more deeply mixed BL w/lower T/Tds and smaller low level hodographs.
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ChiWx378
ChiWx378@WeatherIzzi·
@TeamGodsFinger @NorthILWX Legit question, where do you see sfc confluence? Also, where is the shortwave in model guidance? If anything, looks like very slight sfc diffluence in area I’ve circled. I couldn’t find any model guidance with a shortwave when I did the forecast earlier, I looked hard too!
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NaderMike
NaderMike@TeamGodsFinger·
I know it seems bullish at this time BUT the MPAS-HTPO convective signal seems to be on par with the surface pattern progged by the 18z NAM. An area of confluence and a shortwave imbedded on the lead edge of the greater 500mb flow will likely support conv. init.
NaderMike tweet mediaNaderMike tweet media
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ChiWx378
ChiWx378@WeatherIzzi·
@WindyCityWxMan If you have any approximate location (nearest major cross section or neighborhood) and rough times that would be very helpful. @NWSChicago
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WindyCity Weather and News
WindyCity Weather and News@WindyCityWxMan·
And just like that, there’s the FlashFlood Warning Until 3:45AM, northern Dupage and Northern Cook Counties, the area in the bright green box The yellow box is for the severe thunderstorm warning in effect u til 11:15PM I have received several follower reports of quarter sized hail across the north side of #Chicago
WindyCity Weather and News tweet mediaWindyCity Weather and News tweet media
WindyCity Weather and News@WindyCityWxMan

Storms starting to form that dreaded rain train Would not be surprised to see a flash flood warning in this area soon from the north side of #Chicago back to DeKalb

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Ben Davison
Ben Davison@NorthILWX·
Thank you again @landon_wx for a tour of the NIU Meteorology department, very informative and learned lots. I am likely to attend here to pursue meteorology in a time not far from now!
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Tyler Pasciak LaRiviere
Tyler Pasciak LaRiviere@TylerLaRiviere·
Major traffic back up on the northbound lanes of Michigan Avenue for a road closure on Superior that CTA officials were seemingly (according to a supervisor I spoke to) unaware of, causing well over a dozen buses stuck on Michigan Avenue waiting for traffic to clear enough to do re-routes.
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ChiWx378
ChiWx378@WeatherIzzi·
@w_h_thompson Out of curiosity, do you have similar chart for 2024 and maybe 2023 for comparison?
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ChiWx378
ChiWx378@WeatherIzzi·
Certainly not saying there isn’t a tornado threat Thursday, because there certainly is, but just doesn’t look high end. Given the shear, it isn’t hard to get a strong nado, but looks like we’d have to thread the needle just right. 4!4
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ChiWx378
ChiWx378@WeatherIzzi·
…;especially the IA/IL/WI tri-state area. East of I-39, including Chicago area, it seems like recovery from daytime rain will take place mostly after dark, leading to really weak instability and less concern for strong . 3/4
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ChiWx378
ChiWx378@WeatherIzzi·
I’m not all tingly about a big threat of long tracked, strong tornadoes Thursday. I suppose the ceiling is high, but the number of things that have to go just right is really high, seems much more likely, that one or more of these failure modes could come into play: 1/4
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Andrew Shearer
Andrew Shearer@Drewshearer444·
The 0z OUN shows that too much of something doesn't necessarily mean it's good for severe weather. We had a high-end environment, but too much forcing and early initiation led to a messier/linear mode. These are things to consider tomorrow as well! #okwx
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ChiWx378
ChiWx378@WeatherIzzi·
@JimKaplan10 Your old stomping grounds got in on the heat too! Check out this stat...
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ChiWx378
ChiWx378@WeatherIzzi·
@Ace_chicago That't not the white woman who's usually by 79th and Vincennes, right? That seems pretty far west for her!
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Ace
Ace@Ace_chicago·
Just seen a woman buttnaked on the ground spread out on 79th near Paulina.....gotta be drugs......CPD and ambo just arrived. #chicago
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ChiWx378
ChiWx378@WeatherIzzi·
Not sure what is worse, not being able to sleep thanks to post overnight shift insomnia or the fact I’m laying here with the theme song to The Brady Bunch playing over and over in my head. 🤬
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BriskerSZN
BriskerSZN@BriskerSZN·
“Crowd is too damn loud” Gotta love Wrigley
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ChiWx378
ChiWx378@WeatherIzzi·
@murphymike Optimistic of you to think that this damage will ever be repaired…
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