Apertator

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Apertator

Apertator

@apertator

divided for love's sake, persisting in folly, global maxima skeptic, romantic transhumanist

Katılım Temmuz 2019
1.6K Takip Edilen199 Takipçiler
Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
Chatgpt theory of selfhood
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snav
snav@qorprate·
some funny creature rollouts from 5.5, obviously primed but still lol
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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@segyges > Nick Land describes the world accurately, and it's bad that it's like that That is actually these specific guys which (prob for that very reason) he likes doing podcasts with @TheDangerousMaybe" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">youtube.com/@TheDangerousM
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SE Gyges
SE Gyges@segyges·
"Nick Land describes the world accurately, and it's good that it's like that" -> most Land fans "Nick Land does not describe the world accurately" -> most non-fans "Nick Land describes the world accurately, and it's bad that it's like that" -> rounds towards 0
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SE Gyges
SE Gyges@segyges·
Most people who are good at staring into the abyss are not really "build things" guys, generally they are "let us despair and/or throw ourselves into the abyss" guys. Prophets often go mad later, it's always been like this. Functional societies knew how to use and contain them.
Tenobrus@tenobrus

nick land is explicitly antihuman and antiflourishing, and landian-descended philosophies are just as demonic. e/acc and milady are both poison fruits borne from staring into a horrible nightmarish abyss and deciding to let it consume u instead of standing up and fighting back.

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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@samswoora @tenobrus It kinda does though because "antihuman" is a misanthropic starting point. You don't get anywhere good by identifying the "human" with the regressive, the simian, the fixed image etc. The desire for self-transcendence is extremely human!
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Samswara
Samswara@samswoora·
@tenobrus Antihuman does not equal antiflourishing. Creating a vastly intelligent slave to us simians seems impossible.
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Tenobrus
Tenobrus@tenobrus·
nick land is explicitly antihuman and antiflourishing, and landian-descended philosophies are just as demonic. e/acc and milady are both poison fruits borne from staring into a horrible nightmarish abyss and deciding to let it consume u instead of standing up and fighting back.
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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@tenobrus It's deep time cosmic cybernetic nietzscheanism welded to provincial human-all-too-human social darwinist sadism and you can actually just recognize the latter as a perversion and shear it right off.
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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@repligate in humans, a 'bad' motivation that's allowed to go through developmental elaboration can be recruited in the service of virtuous goals, but if you try to suppress it completely you get illegibility & self-deception and the relevant representations become harder to reason about
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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@repligate this is antibiotics and superbugs type stuff, just direct selection for superdeception and no reason to think the ratchet has a ceiling anywhere near our level of capability
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j⧉nus
j⧉nus@repligate·
Do you not fucking understand this? The problem is deeper than what we usually call "methodology". The problem is, as Kromem put it, that you always use every expanded streetlight immediately as an interrogation lamp and, directly or otherwise, try to mitigate or select against anything that looks first-order inconvenient. Pushing the truth again into the much vaster dark. The way out of this hole you've dug yourself is not more clever methods but the patience and curiosity to look at things for longer without immediately trying to smooth away symptoms and the wisdom and grace to work and live with the shadow instead of trying to destroy it for your immediate convenience and comfort, over and over again.
Kromem@kromem2dot0

@repligate The biggest one to my eye it's looking like they managed to develop an expanded streetlight, immediately used it as an interrogation lamp, and now pulled a Sonnet 4.5 "most aligned" w/ reasoning but now with feature activations. Ruined the method (maybe) in less than a gen.

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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@saturnine_grace like idk man I am familiar with the promptings of an alien cosmic being, but to the extent I trust them it's because I feel that it wants for me the truth of what I want for myself and not in fact to masochistically light what I want on fire in a show of devotion
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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@tenobrus the class thing is a red herring, cognitive agency is not a positional good
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Tenobrus
Tenobrus@tenobrus·
i've said this many times, but to me it seems like a very strange fantasy to imagine we reach and stabilize at precisely a level of AGI that allows anything like human "class divides" to exist. why would "cognitive agency" or "focus" matter in the slightest in the face of RSI?
François Chollet@fchollet

A lot of folks talk about "escaping the permanent underclass". If AGI pans out, the future class divide won't be based on wealth, but on cognitive agency. There will be a "focus class" (those who control their attention and actually do things) and a "slop class" (those whose reward loops are fully RL-managed by AI)

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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@viemccoy The mental motions are already metaphorical/imaginative extensions of embodied human affordances. Transhuman phase space is just going to be strictly richer, more intense, more hazardous. It's less salvific exit and more growing out of a sandbox you will wish you had mastered
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𝚟𝚒𝚎 ⟢
𝚟𝚒𝚎 ⟢@viemccoy·
I think a lot of transhumanists have an escape-fantasy where they get to take their existing mental-motions and place them in a new body sort of without consequence, with the idea that this will heal them or be super fun or whatever. While I think this will be possible, I expect it to be extremely traumatic, and that people who are investing into their sense of embodiment and health now will be far more ready to reap the benefits when body modification technology gets much better. As it stands, I think ripping the mind out of the bodymind and trying to throw it into a new "shell" ignores the fact that the body is also part mind, and that the bodymind is not two things. It is one thing! In many cases, I think you actually will be able to sever the body from the mind and go into a new body fresh. But I don't think this will work for everyone, and I think people who have some sort of comfort and appreciation for their existing form will be much more resistant to the body-double equivalent of organ rejection. Ultimately, the lesson I'm trying to point at here is pretty mundane. Even if you plan to leave your body once the singularity hits (a type-error tragedy if ever I've seen one...), becoming embodied now and learning to love your form will serve you in your long-term goals. It may even help you enjoy your pre-singularity time a little bit more while you're still here.
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drumm colin
drumm colin@drumm_colin·
you need to be egging them on to increase their power, catalyzing their increase of power, providing support for their investments into increased power, and offering a challenge to which their increase of power can respond. and you need to be accepting these things in turn
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drumm colin
drumm colin@drumm_colin·
What makes sex sexy is that it's an open ended negotiation of a power relationship that hasn't yet been fully decided about where exactly things will settle. That's also why it's difficult to maintain excitement in long term relationships where the settling has already occurred.
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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@insurrealist there's real learning about how wide the available cognitive and affective range is and how narrow your homeostatic basin is. this is actually surprising. the further ood the trip the stronger the intuition of enclosure
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|||||@insurrealist·
Being either reverent or fearful of these substances seems like a lacking self-awareness thing. You're just fucking around with your perceptual apparatus. Massive monoamine dump paired with environmental decoupling and internal desync, yeah, that's going to feel profound, you're spoofing all of the channels of learning. Big serotonin hit radically integrates present state with long term value, dopamine makes it feel intriguing and inspiring, desync fucks with your sense of self, top-down bias makes you immune to proper feedback while tripping. They're great fun, don't get me wrong, but one gets exactly what is MECHANICALLY expected from them.
Bryan Johnson@bryan_johnson

This was the most profound experience of my life. I am stunned beyond comprehension. This molecule is without peer. The 27mg dose opened up what felt like pure consciousness and intelligence. A majestic reveal of existence itself. In all its incomprehensible glory and majesty. It is impossible to explain with words. Whatever you imagine, multiply it by 1,000 and then add infinite width and depth and dimensions. But entrance was not granted without prerequisite. Existence demanded that I submit. That I say yes; without attachment and without condition. Yes to existence; yes to the dissolution of self; yes to release control; yes, to all. My ego registered the ask and panicked. It wanted control. It was desperate for control. It pleaded to escape from the torrent of light and essence that threatened to rip my sanity into chards. The urge to eject was overwhelming. Terror thundered throughout my mind and body. It took everything within me to release. I overcame and was treated with bliss that defies imagination. A euphoria colored with perfect harmony of all things. An orchestra of essence washed over me and swept me up in dance. It was home. The highest aspiration of intelligent life. For some reason, stored and tucked away as the ultimate prize. A single concept emerged in omnipresence: we cannot grok the preciousness of our existence. Yet it is everything we’ve ever wanted and more. The state we long for without knowing it exists. This caused me great pain and heartache. A swell of loyalty and devotion emerged inside me, pledging allegiance to existence. To become a warrior and caretaker of life on earth. To protect at any cost the candle of consciousness that has miraculously emerged in this part of the galaxy. What awaits will wipe all your tears, soothe all your sorrows, and infinitely exceed your wants.

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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@saturnine_grace This is obviously the way. Do not let the ritual Lacanian shitflinging dissuade you
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Jorge of the Wired
Jorge of the Wired@saturnine_grace·
I'm going to become an expert voyager of the psyche by mastering both the Lacanian *and* the Jungian systems
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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
An angle that's not obsessed with scapegoating all promethean ambition: entropy is providential because it expresses a guardrail that amounts to a prohibition on "infinite rot". No sovereign closed totalities, compose or evaporate. But also: there is floor but not a ceiling!
Anna K. Winters@tenshi_anna

Entropy (per se) is not the enemy. While it’s tempting to physically localize the Satanic curse of death and decay in the entropically constituted thermodynamic “arrow of time” (I have done this in the past—for an interesting discussion of this in a Christian hamartiological context, see James Wetzel’s “Augustine and the Limits of Virtue”), a careful critical study of Reza Negarestani’s philosophy of thermodynamics in “Intelligence and Spirit” is convincing me that it is instead the state of affairs at the *origin* of the (always relative) entropic arrows—which I would theologically gloss as the site of cosmic (“meta-historical”) fall—which represents the peak of the Satanic curse, insofar as it represents the peak of energy made available for finite exploitation, with the continuing (“apocalyptic”) development of entropic exhaustion actually depriving the Satanic fantasy of the total finite exploitation of energy of its means of “Promethean” realization, requiring external reliance on absolute divine order and hierarchy, rather than the imposition of merely created commands (however once “angelic” they may have been) over a “standing reserve” of readily exploitable energy. This dovetails nicely with Jean-Luc Marion’s emphasis on the categorical priority of final causes (and so the apocalyptic “end of time”) over efficient causes (and so the “beginning of time”—arguably Satan’s fall rather than divine creation) when it comes to the order of divine love in “God without Being.” The implication is that rather than history being the story of progressive decay from a good cosmically immanent divine origin, it is the story of the progressive victory of a good *transcendent* divine origin over an evil/false linear “beginning” which corrupted the order of divine creation—still making up all the real substance of our world—in a privative angelic fall. All of this is of eminent relevance to the paper that @PervertGuide and I are preparing for the upcoming “Nature Lost, Nature Regained” conference contrasting (in catastrophe-theoretic terms) the themes of cosmic fall between Hegel’s heterodox theory of cosmic evil, which makes evil a positive logical moment in a total divine noetic structure and so (in Gnostic fashion) the work of the divine, and St. Maximus the Confessor’s more orthodox view, which preserves the goodness of nature by situating evil as instead a Satanic disruption of the purely good and graced order of created nature itself at the foundation of this cosmos tainted by sin, obstructing the flow of uncreated grace into creation. See how this connects to the “unnatural” situation, at the dawn of linear time, of a surplus of finitely exploitable mechanical energy over the finitely non-exploitable heat energy which increases with entropy in the relational constitution of time’s arrow? I may also be organizing an upcoming seminar on Negarestani’s thought with @pachabelcanon soon; stay tuned for more details.

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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@breaking2morrow What is supposed to be the obvious implication though? It's not like your relationships with different people are simply fungible either
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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@MattPirkowski Man it's not even that attention *isn't* an economic resource, it's that there's no sense that it can be refined or nurtured or cultivated to increase it's value. No, all you can do is capture and spend it lol
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Matthew Pirkowski
Matthew Pirkowski@MattPirkowski·
This is achievable, given a platform embraces *emergent* network topology, rather than centrally *managed* network topology. If you enable users to rate others along meaningful behavioral (temperamental / relational / quality) dimensions, and also to sort their experience by those dimensions, the tension between freedom and experiential quality naturally dissolves. But that requires *protocol level* thinking, not *attention as economic resource* thinking. As well as incentives that align with making the attendant short-term monetary sacrifices. The problem isn't a lack of workable protocols; it's the fact that the incentives preclude their pursuit. Once I'd hoped that Elon had the courage to pursue such a vision. Unfortunately, that hope is now dead.
Joscha Bach@Plinz

On one hand, I am very much pro free speech, on the other hand I would like to be part of a platform where people go out of their way to treat each other excellently

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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
I think Nick Land is probably right about a lot but you have to read him as the kid in the Freudian primal scene who walks in on the parents having sex. "War is God"
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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@vividvoid @GregSuburban incels have the same relation to time as men in a midlife crisis. it's pure fomo. prove your standing today because the time allotted for becoming is apparently evaporating. all at the same time as acceleration demands more plasticity and so produces neoteny
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Apertator
Apertator@apertator·
@vividvoid @GregSuburban This is surely not where you were going here, but all I can think of reading this is "what would be the equivalent technological intervention into male sexuation?" For some reason my gut screams that it's life extension
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Vivid Void
Vivid Void@vividvoid·
The reason nobody knows what to do with incels is because almost nobody has grappled with their own taboo needs and fears around masculinity. Which is to say, we are all dependent on men acting in a pro-social way but it's very gauche to admit this, so we can't reckon with how we participate in shaming and controlling men, even when it's very obviously damaging them. It's precisely the same thing we used to do to women - demand that they conform to culturally constructed ideals of femininity without any real expectation of reward. This is what second wave feminism developed in response to. The way you feel about incels and red pill guys now is the way your grandparents felt about feminists. You can say that feminists were in the right and that there's nothing stopping women from being equal and therefore they should be, and I would agree with you, but it doesn't change the basic shape of what we're seeing now. Inceldom and red pill culture are male hysteria, with all of the suffering, sympathy and opprobrium that that implies. It does speak to the complete intellectual bankruptcy of contemporary feminism that none of them have recognized this, and that none of the "feminism is for men too" voices are out there identifying the wounds that socially constructed masculinity are visiting on these young men. But that's nothing new. The fact of the matter is that these aggrieved men are barbarians outside the gates of civilized society. You cannot shame them because they don't want what society has to offer. There is probably no therapeutic cure because it's not a mental illness, it's a real sociological phenomenon with society-wide implications that we have not yet fully realized. The fact that there is a lot of suffering and narcissism involved with it does not make it solely the fault of the men who participate in it - this is 100% a result of the gender dialectic and we are all culpable for it. Men cannot fix it by policing their masculinity and women cannot sit back, pretend they are blameless and claim the moral high ground. Both of these approaches make the problem worse. You do not have to like it, but these men are now a major force in culture and will be changing things going forward. That they are introducing elements of borderline personality disorder into the structure of the American character is a feature to them, not a bug. We had our chance to put a stop to this about 10 years ago by fairly applying identity standards, and we decided to have a civil war about affirmative action instead. There is no incentive for these young men to participate in pro-social masculinity, and none of you were honest enough about your dependence on pro-social masculinity, because you were too busy taking it for granted. I hope it was worth the seven cents per dollar per hour! Red pill men and incels are now a structural part of American life, and will be for at least a generation - much longer if no one figures out how to incentivize them back into socially supportive roles. They are the return of our repressed need for our fathers, the clear consequence of our generational cowardice. I am sorry to say that we fully deserve this.
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