Jim Clark

@samsomogye The Constitution does not guarantee rights. Anything that wasn't a power reserved for the federal or state government was a right of the people. Look how much we freely gave up.

Constitution also guarantees your right to bear arms. Are you implying you shouldn’t have to have an ID to purchase a firearm?

@theczarjulius @mauddweeb I believe you are correct. I would say it is normal now to meet people who will not read a book. They are the new "normies".

@mauddweeb It’s one of the most famous novels of all time tho? Does normies here just mean people that don’t read recreationally?

the worst thing that ever happened to dune was becoming something the normies know about most people should not know the words lisan al gaib or kwisatz haderach

@WallensteinFan @mauddweeb The normies know about the film, not the book. I think that is what he meant. Since the creation of smart phones and the internet, people don't read as much. The film is attracting a lot of "normies" that think they know the story without ever reading the books.

@mauddweeb “The worst thing to happen to the most popular sci fi book ever was becoming something normies know about” do you hear yourself?

@CurmudgeonlyOpa @TheMiddleborne Same here. I'm 53 years old. Read the original Dune series multiple times. Loved the SYFY adaption and original film. Can't stand Denis's version.

@TheMiddleborne I first read Dune more than 50 years ago. I've read EVERY book in the series. I've seen every movie and TV adaptation. After having seen the first two movies, I will NEVER watch this third abomination.

Just every time the camera goes to Chani it completely breaks the scene. She’s insufferable in this.

I won't say Denis fucked up, but I will say he fucked up. Frank Herbert gave Denis what he needed to clarify scenes. That is Princess Irulian's monologue at the beginning of the chapters. A version of them could have been inserted into the film at various points. Not a perfect solution, but I would have applauded the effort. It would have been somewhat consistent with the books and clarified what cannot translate to film.

It's not only that, it's that Denis completely removes all of the internal monologue, and almost all of the dialogue that actually produces these scenes. I was listening to the audiobook earlier and there are pages and pages of Paul figuring out how to get the Fremen to change their tradition from new leaders having to kill the old in mutual combat. Or another big example is Gurney and Thufir still thinking that the Bene Gesserit and Jessica were the ones who betrayed Leto. Denis doesn't know how to make what Herbert wrote in terms of character onto the page, all he can do is present you their expressions and the bare minimum of literature. That's why normies love it and book fans feel unfulfilled.

@TheMiddleborne @TheReactionGif @WeGoNoFurther Film Chani would have been fine and appropriate up until she believed Paul to be the Mahdi and fell in love. After that book Chani would have ass raped film Chani for behaving the way she did. Damn, now I have visions of SYFY Chani putting the smackdown on film Chani. BRB...

@TheReactionGif @WeGoNoFurther She’d have been fine if they wrote her closer to the book character

@TheMiddleborne @plainrunner2 The Fedaykin would probably have killed her for walking out on him like that.

@plainrunner2 She’s a modern resist lib charicature in the film.

@Boogie_Rambler @Calypso694 @abu_zafar I'm not saying FH didn't make notes. I'm saying he didn't provide enough detail in those note to finish the original series. That is why Brian an KJA never made the notes public. Your right. Cope and seethe. I choose seethe when it comes to those fan fiction books.

@bbCaulk @Calypso694 @abu_zafar Cope and seethe I guess. Or choose to enjoy life. Up to you.

This is one of the most persistent myths about Dune Messiah. Frank Herbert had the the first 3 books planned out, with the overall arc of Paul Atreides set from the beginning. He did not "write Messiah because readers didn't understand Dune".

Pual didn't choose the jihad. The jihad was inevitable the second he inadvertently convinced the Fremen he was the Mahdi. When Paul took the water of life and lived, that was the trigger for the jihad. Paul clearly states the jihad would rage on in his name whether he lived or died before the jihad even began. The jihad was part of the prophecy of the return of the Mahdi that the Bene Gesserit planted on Dune thousands of years earlier.

@Herr_Frosch_ @SCShipyards Well, the whole point is once Paul chose the path, he knew exactly that this would happen. So you can argue that Paul chose to let the Fremen overrule him and do shitty things. Predestined time tracks are in the end really shitty.

You want the REALLY fun take on this new Dune discourse? Paul did not engage in any "cultural appropriation". The fremen culture had been deliberately engineered for generations to welcome someone like him as a savior. He was literally doing what their culture demanded of him

A reverend mother would have only needed to appear to be fulfilling the prophecy long enough to escape to safety. That was the purpose. Paul being a KH fit the prophecy too well. That is what triggered the jihad. The jihad was triggered and inevitable the instant he drank the water of life and lived. The jihad would be waged in Paul's name whether he lived or died.

@SCShipyards @GeoGDF01 The Bene Gesserit deliberately and purposefully manipulated thousands of cultures to serve their own ends by implanting legends to be used- and the legend of the mah’di was reserved for particularly brutal and dangerous worlds of I remember right.

Paul was in control of his destiny until he lost control of his destiny. Before he took the water of life, he had choices. Once he could see the future, he no longer had choices. He said quite clearly that even if he died right then and there, the jihad would have raged on without him. Paul didn't cause the jihad. The Bene Gesserit did. They created the prophecy that the messiah would come. Jessica made sure he played the role so they would survive. The jihad had been triggered before Paul even drank the water of life.

@SCShipyards So Paul was not in control of his destiny… until he took control of his destiny?

Yet these notes were never published. I don't want to hear no bullshit either. Brian and KJA were money hungry. Publishing the notes would have made them millions of dollars for little to no work. And it would have given credibility to their work. I'm not even going to bother with going point by point where they completely broke canon.

@Calypso694 @abu_zafar It's not uncommon for writers to make notes like this. I find it hard to believe that his son and Anderson would be able to just make shit up and have it weave together with the original novels so well. I'm reading through the entire series for the third time right now.

Paul never faced the reality that the Golden Path was the only way for humanity to survive until he argued with Leto in the desert. What you are saying is true, and what I am saying is true. Clinging to humanity AND not having perfect vision is what prevented Paul from following the GP. As long as Paul thought there was another way, his humanity wouldn't allow him to take the GP. That is completely understandable. I wouldn't do it either if I thought there may be another way. As soon as Leto convinced him there was no other way, Paul jumped onboard with the only part he could play -- the martyr. The irony is vision strength. If Paul was strong enough to see the GP was the only way, he absolutely would have done it. Only the person with the strength to see there is no other possible way could succeed. Leto saw Paul was not strong enough and would fail. Leto IS the golden path.

@bbCaulk @HMBohemond I just read Children of Dune. We're saying the same thing. Paul couldn't bring himself to embark on the Golden Path because he was still too connected to his humanity. Leto was 'pre-born' and disconnected enough from his humanity so he could force the Great Scattering.

What Herbert and Villeneuve intended with their work is irrelevant because that's not what their work said. Authorial intent has limits when the text is finally presented. Don't write a hero then say, "Actually he's the villain." It doesn't work that way.

@CultureCrave A ghola. Good Lord read a book.

Jason Momoa as Hayt in 'Dune 3' A clone of Duncan Idaho

@dmbkparker Landing is easy. All helicopters come with gravity-assist in their standard package.

Do you think if I put you in a helicopter you could successfully takeoff and land? No instruction. You can watch as many YouTube videos as you want before we go.

@usmc_colonel I read that as soup nazi. I laughed until I remembered I'd like to choke those people.

Fucking French. The Louve gets hits, loses millions in diamonds, and the fucktards can't keep the Soup Crazies out. FFS.

Paul couldn't take the vision far enough. His vision wasn't perfect. Because Paul's vision wasn't perfect, he thought there was another way he just couldn't see yet. Leto set him straight in their argument in the desert in Children of Dune. Leo clearly says he's the only one strong enough. Not even Ghanima could do it.

In my view, Paul starts as a hero. But what usually happens when you reach this status? You fall, it's the only direction you have. Then, Paul's son takes on the burden. I believe he even says in one book that "his father didn't take the vision far enough". In "God Emperor of Dune", both are redeemed by Leto's sacrifice. Just my 2 cents.

Paul thought he had options. His vision wasn't perfect. Because his vision wasn't perfect, he would have been doomed to fail trying following the golden path anyway. Leto explained this in plain English in their argument in the desert in Children of Dune. Leto was the only one strong enough to succeed in following the golden path.

@thx1138_v2 @johnnycage4T6 @HMBohemond His son saves humanity by making that sacrifice Paul wouldn't

You need to read Paul and Leto's argument in the desert again in Children of Dune. Paul didn't take the Golden Path because he thought he would "see" another way. His vision wasn't perfect. The whole argument was Leto forcing Paul to see the GP was the only way to avoid human extinction. It also proves Paul was not strong enough to complete the GP even if he tried. Paul would have failed. Leo clearly states he's the only one strong enough. Not even Ghanima could do it. Finally Paul understands and accepts the GP as the only way forward. Paul joins Leto on the GP, only not as a leader, but a Martyr. Paul being a coward was not the issue, it was lack of strength. Because he wasn't strong enough, he thought he had options.

@HMBohemond You could only believe Paul is the hero if you haven't read the entire series. Paul is also not exactly a villain. He is contemplating a 'least worst' path for humanity and that path is terrible. It's so terrible that he can't bring himself to do it. But Leto II does.

@Tommy_Nicoletti @Sandbar101 @HMBohemond You literally lost all credibility with that comment. You have no understanding of the dune universe. Stop pretending.

@Sandbar101 @HMBohemond You mean the thing Paul gives up on an leaves to his son to decide what course should be taken