@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 What? My kids understand this better.
Anyway I get that you're only here to troll/confirm your priors. The millisecond things change you'll change your tune, the very definition of a coward. Muting now.
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ceilingscrack
544 posts
@ceilingscrack @HenryGB_274 I do agree however Liberal societies should be more aggressive with their power.
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Last time I was in Cuba I met a man whose mother was dying an extraordinarily painful death from rickets. She was 100% treatable with Vitamin D and calcium, which are in our breakfast cereal in the US.
So yes I think it’s good to bring vitamins and medical supplies to Cuba.
After the haze@vivaLaErre
.@ContraPoints wishes she could forget leftist theory??: "It's Bible study for lefties. That's what theory is [...] I'm just not a church person, I don't want to make the trips to Cuba"
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 Of course you want universal principles. Otherwise it's post-hoc. Your position only works when you have the upper hand. One day when the enemy has bigger weapons than you, you'll instantly appeal to those very principles I'm talking about.
Your stance is childish and craven.
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@ceilingscrack @HenryGB_274 Why would I want a universal position? Labels matter. I do not want to live in a society with illiberal people or a world with terrorists.
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 Rights either apply to people per se, or they don't. Hopefully you see that labeling someone else "terrorist" or "illiberal" does not get us anywhere. Your position can't be made universal.
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Also this idea that you have to apply your first principles to all is incoherent. I would never suggest a nation or peoples principles need apply to an out group. Israel does not have the same obligation to Palestinians as they do Israelis. They could theoretically commit a genocide (something they aren’t today) and still be a liberal democracy.
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 What are those, exactly? You say so, then revert right back to your characterization of the present situation, a fundamentally different thing. Whether or not they're "illiberal" today, shouldn't they in principle be afforded the same rights as everyone?
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There are a number of first principles that would support defending your nation from foreign terrorists. And I don’t really care much for illiberal people so in my mind it made sense for Arabs to fight back against the Israel’s establishment but after rejecting peace to start a war they lost and still want to rejecting peace they’re lucky their enemy is a liberal democracy other use they wouldn’t exist anymore something I wouldn’t be bat an eye at a liberal democracy doing to a threat.
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 "protecting oneself" against "terrorists" etc are not first principles. You're treading water, applying post-hoc justifications. Do you defend and uphold those same rights of the Palestinians?
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@ceilingscrack @HenryGB_274 Of course does against a neighboring terrorist regime that will not accept peace it’s the only option.
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 "Protecting oneself" does not justify decades-long occupations overseen by military tribunals. Sorry. We fundamentally disagree and I still fail to see how you could apply such a standard consistently.
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@ceilingscrack @HenryGB_274 It’s not self-proclaimed they are democracies. And I’m not saying because bad things exist that makes them ok. I’m saying liberal democracies are still that even if they have to do bad things at times to protect themselves.
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 I'm making normative statements. You're saying in reality these things exist in self-proclaimed democracies, something no one is arguing against. Then, when convenient, you switch and imply that *because* bad things exist that makes them ok.
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Looks like you just don’t understand what liberalism means or what a liberal democracy means. You absolutely can have slavery and concentration camps within this system. There’s no buzzwords just pointing basic reality. You’re the one saying “this can’t be liberal democracy because I say” which is illogical.
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 America's similar actions, including concentration camps and (obviously) slavery, are blatantly incompatible with liberal democracy and glaring examples of it failing to live up to its promise. Israel is in the same boat. Your buzzwords, dodge/justify that basic reality.
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Who is labeling children and civilians as terrorists? But refusing to acknowledge their support for terrorism and demanding their rejection of it is the only first step that will lead to peace. Otherwise Israel will just keep protecting themselves from their violent terroristic neighbors.
Settlements are bad but without a unified Palestine that is an independent sovereign nation Israel will continue to benefit from the turmoil. You can easily reconcile this with a liberal democracy. America is currently a Liberal Democracy with fascistic leadership people can choose bad things in a liberal democracy. At one point we even had concentration camps and slavery in this country.
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 Labeling children and civilians terrorists is meaningless and will only convince people that already agree with you. The expanding settlements and never-ending occupation are clear denials of self-determination. There is no way to reconcile that with democracy.
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@ceilingscrack @HenryGB_274 Who is denying others self-determination? Pretty sure Israel is just engaging with the Arabs choices. It’s not Israel’s fault the Arabs will not reject terrorism and seek peace they can only engage with what is as a liberal democracy and protect themselves.
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 How do you reconcile the principles of a liberal democracy with denying others self-determination?
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Not seeing it wasn’t diverting from it. Liberal Democracies protect themselves from foreign aggression. Liberal Democracies follow the will of the people. Israel is a Liberal Democracy. Your statement “liberal democracies do not carry out long-term occupations of foreign territories” is incorrect they do what they must to maintain and protect their liberal democracy.
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@adamjohnsonCHI @HBendaas Is his think tank actually real or just a generic centrist-sounding front where he can post links to his podcast?
cnliberalism.org
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@HBendaas Oh man I wonder what lobbies, industries and corporations funded that guys think tank
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Ignoring the pablum here, “Politicians used to be more honest before Donald Trump” is not a respectable thought for anyone over the age of 25 to hold
Jeremiah Johnson 🌐@JeremiahDJohns
One of the worst things Donald Trump ingrained into American politics is the idea that if your base likes you enough, you never have to back down or apologize for anything. Does it matter whether Abdul ever got his medical license, or treated patients, or had a residency? In the context of a Senate run, not especially, if we're being real. But it seems indisputable that he was deliberately deceptive about using titles like 'physician', playing up his doctor credentials, talking about how he 'healed people', etc. And even if you want to say that's a gray area rather than a straight up lie, people used to be embarrassed by that kind of deception. It used to be normal for politicians to apologize for things, scandals used to matter. Trump has taught everyone that you never need to apologize, ever. Double down. Triple down. Caught lying, or doing something immoral or shady? Mock the people criticizing you. Rally the base around you, attack rather than defend. You're actually PROUD of whatever they're mad at. Trump proved that as long as your base is rabid enough, this tactic works. And I hate to use overly dramatic cliches, but this kind of thing is poisonous to the soul of the country.
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 I'll repost this, since you tried to divert away from the West Bank again. We have long-term, de facto segregation under this system (and did in Gaza too before Israel wiped it off the map).
x.com/ceilingscrack/…
ceilingscrack@ceilingscrack
@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 @katewillett Liberal democracies do not carry out long-term occupations of foreign territory affording the residents no recourse to the same legal rights or a self-determined government. But I'm from the US- we actually have a history of armed resistance against that exact arrangement
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 @katewillett It is under Israel's de-facto control, however. Which is where the injustice comes in.
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 @katewillett In the West Bank they are not. They are under perpetual military occupation with no recourse to the same legal system as Israelis, all while the settlements keep expanding and expanding.
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@ShabazzStuart Cool. I know there are only a few places their tracks connect. Any idea why this one was here?
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If anyone ever wonders what a A-division (numbered lines) train looks like on B division (lettered lines) platform…
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 @katewillett Liberal democracies do not carry out long-term occupations of foreign territory affording the residents no recourse to the same legal rights or a self-determined government.
But I'm from the US- we actually have a history of armed resistance against that exact arrangement
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@MadnessWes47898 @saucedupyit @TraffeCone @CamWalsh27 No. E.g. Star Wars was heavily based on westerns and sci-fi serials, but it introduced novel images, characters, etc. Human artists curate, bring in ideas from their subjective experience.
That's fundamentally different than a machine remixing its training data.
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@saucedupyit @TraffeCone @CamWalsh27 You can say the same thing about any movie made in the past 20 years.
"It had elements of x already existing movie in it"
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@PolarizedxD @HenryGB_274 @katewillett By most measures “liberal democracy”includes equality before the law
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@BenecolYakult @NYPostOpinion Correct. So why are you posting some meme that does the same for a different genocide?
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