damageboy

15.7K posts

damageboy

damageboy

@damageboy

Making the world a better place through page tables Works at #5700FF Pronouns: Has/Been

Antarctica Katılım Mayıs 2008
964 Takip Edilen2.2K Takipçiler
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
My vectorized sorting extravaganza is out and about. A LOT of work went into this (referring to the javascript in the posts :) Read, retweet, send scathing reviews, open issues, heat your house with it: This goes to Eleven! Pt. 1-3, code, nuget out: bits.houmus.org/2020-01-28/thi…
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
@realmemes6 Also, what is limiting bw right now is the pins, less so the HBM itself. A true 3D packaged dram on top of compute, if someone knows how to solve the cooling challenge has another easy 8x in the current HBM tech. It's all pin limited where we stand.
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siliconmemes
siliconmemes@realmemes6·
@damageboy Led astray by AI, I should have just left HBM out of this, my main point was laser links between small satellites in space replacing datacenters on Earth. But even then they can be used for inference and not training.
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siliconmemes
siliconmemes@realmemes6·
The future with space datacenters and LPDDR replacing HBM is very fun, but don't forget the physics. The speed of light in a vacuum is 33% to 50% faster than copper, and not faster at all in fiber optic cable. Every foot (30cm) at speed of light in a vacuum adds 1ns of latency.
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
@realmemes6 Yeah, regardless, I don't understand the hate with HBM, 3D packaging, in general is a very "easy" win. Eventually cooling of such contraptions will be solved. Will love to read a well argued counterpoint, let's see what @insane_analyst writes
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
@realmemes6 HBM access latency is much closer to high 80s, low 90s, I don't know what subset of the access path you had to go for to get a 50ns number. And this is without significant reordering at the controller which usually adds another 50ish cycles for a reorder queue of 96
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siliconmemes
siliconmemes@realmemes6·
For context HBM4 access latency is less than 50ns, so if memory stays on the board the round trip latency added by distance is a few nanoseconds but wouldn't be a deal killer by itself.
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
@NBhgdrh הוויכוח הוא מול סוני, בעיקר אם אתה מעריך מוזיקה.
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
@talitshe הוא ממש לא גרוע. יש לי פרוייקט נקי ממאי השנה על ג'פיטי 5.5 והכל נראה מעולה, בהנחה שמשקיעים 5 דקות בלהבהיר פרקטיקות פרוייקט, כמו בכל פרוייקט ק"פפ
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טלית שכולה
טלית שכולה@talitshe·
לעת עתה, CPP מספקת "job security" למתכנתים: קוד שמיוצר ע"י LLMs הוא... גרוע. מי שיכול, מתמודד (או, אם המעסיק מאפשר, נמנע מ-AI). מי שלא מסוגל, פורש. מי שחכמה - מחליפה לשפה ראויה יותר. (כן, יש בעיה אמיתית של קוד legacy שאי אפשר פשוט להחליף...)
Haider.@haider1

Creator of C++, Bjarne Stroustrup: AI-generated code isn't ready — it generates more bugs, more bloat, more security holes, and is nearly impossible to validate "senior developers are already retiring rather than deal with it" The problem is that even a small prompt change can shift the entire codebase in unpredictable ways

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Shaul Amsterdamski 🤞
Shaul Amsterdamski 🤞@amsterdamski2·
בשכונה האהובה שלי התרבו השלטים על מכירת בתים. באמת, מלא. תוהה לאן כל האנשים האלה הלכו אבל זה לציוץ אחר. אחד מהם של בית ייחודי מראשית ימי השכונה שהלוואי שהייתי יכול לגור בו. לפני כמה חודשים הציעו אותו למכירה ב-12 מיליון שקל. בקטנה. כעת המתווכת הורידה ל-9.9 מיליון. נמשיך לחכות :)
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
@insane_analyst How soon can that realistically overtake hbm in price? And in pJ/bit?
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Irrational Analysis
Irrational Analysis@insane_analyst·
Or just use LPDDR attached via optics. 😉
Jukan@jukan05

Breaking the "Memory Wall": Optical Interconnects Emerge in GPU–HBM Packaging As a solution to the "memory wall," one of the chronic challenges in AI semiconductors, the memory and packaging industries at home and abroad are weighing an approach that decouples the GPU and high-bandwidth memory (HBM) and packages them separately. The core idea is to move the HBM—until now mounted right next to the GPU—a certain distance away, and bridge the gap with light (optics), allowing several times more HBM to be installed than is possible today. On the 22nd, a researcher at a major domestic memory maker said, "We're currently struggling to expand HBM bandwidth and capacity, so we're discussing with customers a plan to overcome the GPU's shoreline limit through optical interconnects and mount more HBM." Shoreline refers to the length of the chip's perimeter. In today's AI computing environment, the key factor dragging down compute efficiency is the data transfer speed of memory chips. While GPU performance has grown by leaps and bounds with each generation, the speed at which memory stores and supplies data has failed to keep pace—creating a structural performance barrier, the memory wall. The arrival of HBM, with its wide data pathways, put out the immediate fire, but critics continue to point out that bandwidth and transfer speeds still fall short of handling the explosive growth in AI compute. Until now, the industry has focused on stacking HBM ever higher to increase memory capacity and bandwidth within a confined footprint. But as stack counts climbed past 12 and 16 layers toward 20 and beyond, process difficulty rose exponentially. The technology hit physical limits, including the growing difficulty of meeting fixed height specifications. Vertical stacking has reached an inflection point—so much so that the JEDEC standards body has relaxed its HBM height specifications. The bigger problem is that if stack counts can't be raised, the alternative is to add more HBM horizontally around the GPU—but that, too, is impossible. In the current 2.5D packaging structure, the GPU and HBM are mounted tightly together on a single substrate. Within this structure, the number of HBM units that can be placed is strictly limited by the finite length of the GPU chip's perimeter—its shoreline. Even when more HBM is desired, there is physically no room to place it, leaving the industry in a structural deadlock. The alternative now emerging across the semiconductor industry is to separate the GPU and HBM and package them independently. It overturns the conventional chip-design principle that components must sit close together to minimize data transfer time. Instead of keeping the two chips adjacent, the approach spaces them apart and links them with overwhelmingly fast optical signals to overcome the added physical distance. Placing the HBM slightly away from the GPU within the board frees the design from the GPU's shoreline constraint. With the spatial limitation gone, far more HBM can be spread out laterally and packed into the board—several times more than today—without having to push stack heights to extremes. This means the total memory capacity and data bandwidth of the AI accelerator system would expand dramatically, on a scale incomparable to current systems. "Discussing Placing HBM Beneath the GPU"… Form Factor Could Change The industry is now producing a range of architectural design proposals over where exactly to place the HBM within the GPU board. The same memory researcher said, "Options under discussion range from broadly utilizing the space immediately around the GPU to isolating the HBM beneath the GPU board." He added, "In the latter case—isolating it beneath the GPU board—the motherboard would have to be extended lengthwise, so we're discussing even an overall form-factor change with the GPU maker." Specifically, the HBM might surround the GPU from several centimeters away, or a separate HBM zone might be created in the center of the board. "We're keeping every possibility open as we discuss the optimal layout," he said. "Nothing has been confirmed as an official roadmap yet, but as part of preliminary research toward next-generation AI accelerators, we're in talks with our partners." The outsourced semiconductor assembly and test (OSAT) industry is also watching this trend closely. An executive at a global OSAT firm said, "Optical interconnects are a clear trajectory. The only question is timing," predicting that "rack-to-rack and server-to-server links will go optical first, and then chip-to-chip connections within the board will follow." He added, "The larger units will be connected by light first, but optical research is moving so fast that it may not be that far off." Technically, the optical-interconnect technology linking GPU and HBM shares the same underlying principle as the technology connecting server to server inside a data center. The difference is the high technical barrier of shrinking optical-conversion technology—once used for communication between large pieces of equipment—down to the microscopic scale of a single board and chipset. An executive at a domestic developer of co-packaged optics (CPO) components explained, "As HBM stack heights approach their limit, the industry is discussing spreading the memory out laterally to maximize how much can physically be mounted." He added, "The principle is the same as conventional data-center optical interconnects, but HBM optical links that have to operate within a confined board space require optical components to be miniaturized to far smaller sizes and far higher integration density—so the technical difficulty is greater."

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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
@halvarflake @danluu The flat fee is obviously based on OPM to try and get a flywheel / heroin addiction going. Seems to have worked...
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Halvar Flake
Halvar Flake@halvarflake·
@danluu I think the "losing money on inference" isn't on the API side, but on the "flat fee side". There's an enormous gap on API pricing and flat-fee pricing, and I think margins are slim-positive on API and negative on flat fee.
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Dan Luu
Dan Luu@danluu·
Why are so many people so sure that the big AI providers are losing money on inference? It reminds me of the comments about how Uber can never make money. Their unit economics were fine and they were only losing money because they chose to do so on customer acquisition.
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
@halvarflake @danluu I think Anthropic projected about 40% gross profit margin in 2025 from “selling AI to businesses and application developeS,” down from an earlier ~50% estimate, because inference costs were reportedly 23% higher than expected... I assume this is API ONLY theinformation.com/articles/anthr…
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damageboy retweetledi
Mark Gadala-Maria
Mark Gadala-Maria@markgadala·
People are using AI to remix movies with their favorite actors. This is Commando but instead of Arnold Schwarzenegger it's Danny Davito Credit: aisnypz
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
After some side by side time, I think I'm dumping Claude and embracing gpt 5.5. Whatever autistic powder they sprinkled on those gb200's, I want more of it.
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Alex Sexton
Alex Sexton@SlexAxton·
@damageboy @jtaby It’s just requesting a patch file directly from GitHub for the demo, everything else is client side. #codeview" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">diffs.com/docs#codeview
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Halvar Flake
Halvar Flake@halvarflake·
Ok folks, how do you get an agent to run against a problem for a few days? Mine always find an excuse to stop.
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
@SlexAxton @jtaby Is there a guide on seeing this up for private repos, or just point an LLM and pray?
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Alex Sexton
Alex Sexton@SlexAxton·
Ah yea, I guess what I mean is that the thing we're showing off here is our open source components. This isn't really a product we expect people to use directly (the comments aren't stateful, etc). The hope is that all of the actual players in this space use trees and diffs from us to render so that everyone can be fast in the tools they know and love. (Diffs is already in a ton of the coding apps, codex/conductor/opencode/etc) I think more folks will adopt the pattern! It's certainly possible with the primitives today!
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
@halvarflake It's very spiky, in my experience. And the global PR campaign isn't too dissimilar from the one behind playing the lotto, where you see a winner every week but not the million losers... Much less extreme, but same experience in principle
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Halvar Flake
Halvar Flake@halvarflake·
The cognitive disconnect between what AI can do in blog posts, and what it fails to do in reality, is wide for me. It can do marvels, but it can also mess up so much easy stuff. Is the capability getting even spikier?
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Lucas Meijer
Lucas Meijer@lucasmeijer·
Kind of surprised protobuf is not used much outside of google-sphere. I love how it lets/makes you turn everything into a data problem instead of api problem.
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
@CiItay @Eli_B_Cook אני בכלל לא מתעורר לפני נסיון דריסה הראשון של שליח בבוקר
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Itay Ci
Itay Ci@CiItay·
@Eli_B_Cook זו לא אותה חוויה אם לא חונים לך על המדרכה ליד המעבר חצייה
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damageboy
damageboy@damageboy·
@PnL63962200 @BarkolAmir @itay0s למורות שהייתי מחכה ל 3.11 for workgroups למען האמת, אם אמיר פה, אתם חייבים למבצע את בmeme של 3.11 for workgroups. מביני דבר יודעים שזה סמל האיכות האמיתי. תשאל חטייארים, יאשרו אותי...
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שמנדריק למאר
אין אמוג'י של מברגה עם מי צריך לדבר? אמיר ברקול?
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