Dvorstone

@dvorstone 's limiting principle of stewardship: Do not mortgage, migrate, or sell what your grandchildren cannot reclaim.

More true than people realize. "Providing" has changed. She won't starve without you.

It's definitely my fault for how this was perceived. Apologies for my lack of precision. What I meant by this isn't that women are running around accusing men of rape IF they regret the sex. This happens, but it's not some widespread behavior. More so, I'm not suggesting that women don't grasp legal concepts. My point is that our concept of rape doesn't cover the full moral scope. Lying for sex or having sex with a drunk women isn't coercion (rape) but it is still morally wrong, and women are obviously sensitive to a wider range of sexual transgressions. One of the ways this manifests is ex post facto. What is a woman's recourse if, for example, a man lies to get her into bed? The law largely says "too bad" and as a result, women have politically pushed the definition of rape more broadly. This appears philosophically incoherent but it isn't. Men are basically saying "so long as I didn't force you, it's not rape." That is technically correct. However, lots of sexual interactions are morally wrong even if they're not rape. The problem is that men are basically saying that it's not morally wrong and thus shouldn't be punished in ANY WAY, unless it's technically criminal. Well, women are responding with "then we'll make it all a crime." And this conversation is happening at the level of the activist and not at any of the appropriate levels. How should a society punish a man (or woman) for immoral sexual behavior that isn't currently conceived of as criminal?

This entire discourse is baffling to me because the question seems to be "can I sin if I have a good reason?" Uh... no. HOWEVER... the entire faith is predicated on the claim that people will sin and God will forgive them if they repent. So... yeah, get that divorce. Then repent to God for having broken your vow. Then move on with your life. It is a sin to break one's marriage vow. It's also a sin to wish harm upon another person even in your own mind. It's a sin to do a million things that we do EVERY SINGLE DAY. That's why we repent every single day. Try not to sin. You'll fail. Repent. Trust in Christ. Repeat. There is this contingent of nominal Christians who seem to think it works like this: if I believe in Christ, all of my past sins will be forgiven AND I will be blessed to never sin again in the future by virtue of my faith. I think the issue is that people are stupid but I can't be sure.

@thebiggestx2 I quoted myself for clarification because you're right... the way it's being interpreted has been rather repulsive, and that is entirely on me.

@dvorstone This take & the comments under it are why its terrifying to be a woman😭

As I have pointed out before: 1. Men define rape as coerced sex. 2. Women define rape as sex that makes them feel bad afterwards, i.e., sex that they regret. It's important to understand that while our legal systems only recognizes the first, women regularly attempt to impose the second.

American "blue states" are notorious for working best for the very rich and very poor. What's less well known is that this is arguably even more true in "red states." Everything from government services to the police and courts work best if you're rich or poor. Entire categories of crime, such as fraud, are ignored if the dollar amounts aren't in the millions. You can, quite literally, make a career of fraud in most states in this country if you don't get too greedy. You can do the same with various forms of petty theft, as well. The corruption of our system is so pervasive that most people have simply given up. From a political perspective, we're in desperate need for massive reforms at every level of government.

@DeadManOnAStick There's literally millennia of theory of ethics and law clarifying that lying is not coercive. They're both wrong but categorically distinct.

@dvorstone You understand if you're lying to get sex you *are* coercing, right?

@Evabrownies420 What is the strategic purpose of your argumentative approach, which appears to be motte and bailey mixed with boilerplate attempts to shame? What are you trying to accomplish?

@dvorstone You have lumped all women into this insane idea of "ordering" the world we have today. I am actually pro patriarchy but I see ot through to its inevitable conclusion; which is that the women of a society are a direct reflection of the men's loosened grip on their mandate to lead.

"their ancient obligations" First off, that's quite a bit of historical fan fiction. Secondly, yes. This isn't a movie where some oracle assigns duties and destinies. Men have protected women and children because doing so allowed them to build a worthwhile existence. Now what, they're suppose to do it for nothing? Men aren't your slaves or servants, but Western men could simply enslave women like Muslims do. Women couldn't stop them. All women can do is appeal to the moral principles of those very men constructed. I don't favor leaving women vulnerable but it isn't up to me. Women have used the Democratic system to impose their will onto us, and they insist on being exposed to the risk of foreign invaders. They aggressive prevent men from stopping it. The only thing men can do is do away with the system that constrains them. Keeping that system AND protecting women is out of our power. It's in women's hands. I don't know the outcome but I do know this: men absolutely will not step up while being stepped on. They will not bleed to defend a people and civilization that despises them. This is the world women ordered up. An alternative exists... but you'll need to negotiate for it, and "thanks" might be all it takes, if you can swallow your pride long enough to muster up the tiniest bit of gratitude.

The current situation is that if men protect women and children, they will be labeled racists and sentenced to prison. Why would they do that? Your presented worldview doesn't make any sense. Men are, like all humans, motivated actors. They need to gain something in order to act... and where is it to be found in your world? You seem to want to shame and manipulate men into noble conduct. It doesn't work that way.

@dvorstone "Now men are supposed to protect women AND CHILDREN for nothing?" Bro really typed that men should only protect children if it gets them something and hit "send"

@Draygou You don't read so well, do you? Did I make any prescriptive claims or just explanatory ones? Go debate your strawmen elsewhere.

Hold up. The whole time growing up i have been told that my violent tendencies are a problem. That my way of solving problems was to extreme. We are toxic we should not be in society. Are tools can hurt people and we should all be shipped somewhere else becouse we dont belong in the modern world. Now that the policies that have pushed us down for nearly 50 years are starting to hurt you all now you want us to stand up on your behalf?

I don't think women really understand this... Men can stop this. They can stop it almost immediately. Vigilante and extrajudicial means will be sufficient to deal with this, but they won't. In my observations, a lot of men would LOVE to handle this. They fantasize about it. Yet they refuse to do it. Why? Surely, some of it is cowardice and whatnot but the real reason is that they believe that the second they did, women would throw them under the bus instead of being grateful. The tragedy is that I suspect they're right. I don't think that modern women would show gratitude. I think they would be repulsed by the violence used on their behalf, and would feel guilty (like Helen of Troy did). They would twist it (the ideology is already in place) and turn it against men, and transfer their affections and sympathies to the men who would victimize them rather than the men who'd protect them. We've already seen this play out in Europe so it's not wild speculation. If a neighborhood decided to start a neighborhood watch that "handled" immigrant criminals in a severe manner, they'd have no reason to think that they wouldn't be turned in immediately by their local women. Everyone knows it too. They know that there's some boomer or "woke" girl, or just some "nice Christian" girl who thinks that vigilante justice is bad, or that "violence is never the answer." The harsh truth is that if women want men to protect them, men will, but women are not conducting themselves (or regulating their peers) such that men feel inclined to do this. Imagine if at the end of the movie "Taken," the daughter turned her father in because he broke the law. That's basically what modern men expect women to do.

This is why a candidate's personal history must be thoroughly vetted. Having said that, if a candidate makes campaign promises and then does the opposite, I actually think that should be a crime.

@Alexandra282072 They're not "civilized." They're weak, cowardly, and too deferential to authority, like children. If they were civilized, this is precisely what they'd be doing: defending civilization.

@dvorstone Men in the UK are just too civilized to do this but you make a great point.

And they say that romance is dead. Yes ladies, if you want to inspire men, support their use of righteous violence. That'll produce a lot more loyalty than trying to emulate a pornstar.

Germans are a spiritually and psychologically broken people, currently in the process of trying to self-eradicate. While it's true that you were once the most productive and cultured people on the planet, WW1 (not 2) broke you. My point is that taking your counsel is akin to asking a mental patient.

@dvorstone The last time we had vigilantism and extra judicial violence in Germany it was men hunting people for the "crime" of being Jewish in public. Our current constitution with its emphasis on human dignity is much better, even though some Nazis are still around and want to hunt humans

I am so tired of these types of questions. You're not subtle. "Women are to blame too." Yeah, we know. Guess what? Humans are sinful. Civilization requires managing that sinful impulse as much as possible. Blaming others as a first instinct is how children behave. Even when true, it's a bad instinct. Here's the reality for the men: you can't "lead" and blame others. That's not how leadership works. Everyone who's ever been a leader knows that if the men you lead disobey you and your leader asks what happened, the only answer is "This is on me. I take full responsibility." Then they deal with it. That's what being a leader is. And I know that young men are being asked to take responsibility without having authority or protection, and this burns them. Fair. That's not what I'm asking of you and what I would appreciate is if you'd shut up and learn something useful.

@SimofCole It only takes one, and that's the problem. One woman who doesn't fear retribution from her community, and she can blow up the entire endeavor.

@dvorstone Idk many women who would oppose this on a moral or even emotional level- most I know would assist. My only real concern would be these men getting prosecuted by the law or liking the violence too much -(getting twisted). But I’m from Texas, so maybe we’re just built different.

Money was never a requirement for sex. It was only a requirement for marriage. Women have been sleeping with sexy broke guys for all of history.

This is because there is a hierarchy to modern sexual relationships, and spouse isn't at the top. Here's the hierarchy, as best as I can evaluate it: For women: 1. The great one night stand - rocking some guy's world with all passion and no lull or drop-off; just a few hours of pure ego-validation 2. High intensity situationship, i.e., the brief fling with a desirable man 3. FWB or f$ckbuddy - an extended version of #1. All chemistry 4. The boyfriend - the long-term relationship. This is where all of the great adventures are had, such as traveling 5. The husband - this the retirement home for sex and romance. This is where you get to reminisce about the above 4 while you settle into security and family For men: 1. The great one-night stand - famously, The Four Seasons wrote a song about this. This is the one you never forget 2. Rotating Plates - this is that brief period of time in your life when you have the looks, energy, and money to keep a rotating collection of women going all at once. This is the "f$ckboy" prime 3. High intensity situationship - same as for women 4. The hot girlfriend - this that girl you "pulled" who was out of your league. Too hot, too rich, too classy, too whatever. For a lot of men, this happens in high school or college 5. The wife - she isn't your favorite, but she's good enough at the right time in your life That is, roughly speaking, what modern culture presents as the hierarchy of modern sexual relationships.