Richard Holmes

@TimReeves_ @GafferNateB @JeffN_Clasher Mormons do not believe Jesus has a dual nature. The Jesus they read about in the Bible, that you say is imaginary, is the ONLY Jesus they believe in. They do not believe in the bodyless "Person" Jesus of the immaterial Essence Trinity. That Jesus never existed and is imaginary.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Yes, the Mormons believe that a man named Jesus did all those things… the issue is how they define Jesus. The definition of Jesus they use, their Christology is wrong. Therefore, the person they believe in never existed because he’s merely imaginary.

I’ve never… read the Book of Mormon. been to a Mormon church. read a book about Mormonism. But… I occasionally house sit for my Mormon neighbors. Their living room wall has 3 statements of faith. None align with the statements of faith my Christian Church holds.

@Mormonger @EagleAndSparrow Maybe they are 1/2 biblical Christians. They believe the man Jesus in the Bible has a man ousia and a God ousia and one hypostasis. So they believe in the man Jesus too. But some creedalists admit that the man ousia of Jesus cannot be God, just his God ousia. So maybe not.

@EagleAndSparrow As Mormons, we must be totally honest. Creedalists do worship a Jesus Christ. It's just not the Jesus Christ revealed in the Bible. It is a Jesus Christ that was invented by councils of men and who is not like the one in the Bible. Thus, they are not Biblical Christians.

As Christians, we must be totally honest. Mormons do worship a Jesus Christ. It's just not the Jesus Christ revealed in the Bible. It is a Jesus Christ that was invented by Joseph Smith and who is not like the one in the Bible. Thus, they are not Biblical Christians.

@ThoughtfulSaint There are scriptures that speak of Jesus as the Creator and Old Testament Jehovah but they have to be speaking by divine investiture, or they contradict the multitude of verses that verify that Jesus is His Son.

@ThoughtfulSaint I am Mormon but I am embarrassed that the Church continues to teach that Jesus is the Creator and Old Testament Jehovah. The evidence against that is overwhelming. Jesus is His Son and Heir whose throne as Jehovah will be on this earth. Study more: uopublications.org/1916/

Yall got cooked.

@ThoughtfulSaint In Trinity doctrine Jesus has a dual nature as a man and at the same time a bodyless "Person" of an immaterial Essence God. So, Jesus can be the "Son of God" AND the immaterial God that he is the Son of at the same time. The First Vision exposed this as confusion.

@LizzieMarbach In Mormonism, the God that is eternal, infinite, and unchangeable is the divine lineage collectively. But individually, they are living beings like Jesus. Jesus was a man and now the resurrected Jesus is an equal to his Father. The creeds mess up people‘s understanding of this

Mormons teach that God used to be a man, just like us, that he earned his way to godhood, and that we too can become a god. This is not Christianity in any way. This is literally just the same lie the serpent told Eve in the garden. “…you will be like God…” Gen 3:5 churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/g…

@antiantimormon @carleolson The Trinity differentiates between a Person and a Being. They say they’re different Persons , but they’re the same Being. But they are totally unlike any other person and any other being. It’s all metaphysical. Three bodiless Persons are one immaterial Essence called a Being.

@carleolson You sure about that? I have lityhad hundreds of different people from various different Christian denominations explain it that way to me. If you believe that the Father and Son are separate beings, then you believe what we do, so why try to fight it?

Spent a few moments on the official LDS site. As expected, much vague pablum. This, however, caught my eye: "The Holy Trinity is the term many Christian religions use to describe God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. Latter-day Saints believe very strongly in all three, but we don’t believe they’re all the same person." Newsflash: No Christian believes they are the same person. This is either ignorance or worse.

@carleolson @Shemcray2 I agree that should be written differently. However, what it says is correct — LDS do not believe they are the same person. And it does not directly say anybody else believes that way. But it implies it.

Heh. I've studied a fair amount of Mormon writings, including the Book of Mormon, etc. My point is that the LDS site posits a completely ridiculous statement that should raise some eyebrows. And, to be clear, I'm not judging (nor did I judge) what "individual members" believe. I quote the LDS site. Keep it real and truthful.

@outofdeception @MikeWingerii You are clearly out of touch with reality. Why should any Mormon trust you then?

@MikeWingerii Exactly Denying that the LORD is One and that Jesus is uncreated, eternal and co-equal with the Father is their biggest blasphemy It’s teachings just go off the rails from there The true structure of Mormonism is built upon Freemasonry which is Luciferian. Smith was a 33rd° FM

Mormonism was based on the belief that the Apostles’ Creed is an abomination to God. Joseph Smith said this is what God told him. Yet they want to be called “Christian.” Come out of Mormonism and come to Jesus.

@MikeWingerii The creeds are abominable not just for what they say. They were used for political control. Anyone that rejected them could be punished or killed. The Apostle's creed came before Nicea. It does not have anything in it that contradicts Mormonism. But don't use it to control.

@EagleAndSparrow Mormons do not believe Jesus has a dual nature as an immaterial Essence. The man Jesus they read about in the Bible is the only Jesus they believe in. His "dual nature" is his unity with his Father, a Being like himself. What different Jesus do you believe in?

@FatherChrisVor1 Mormons find an immaterial essence Father from outside time and space creating everything out of nothing exponentially more unbiblical than a living resurrected Father in an infinite eternal unchangeable divine Lineage that is making this earth a mitosis like copy of His earth

Christians do not believe Jesus became the Son of God. He is the eternal Son. “In the beginning was the Word.” (John 1:1) There was never a time when the Son did not exist. At the Incarnation, the eternal Son took on our human nature and was born of the Virgin Mary. He became man, not the Son. That is why Christians confess Him as “begotten, not made.”

@FatherChrisVor1 You have to give the word Son a new definition for your claim. No other son is the very same immaterial Essence as his father. Every other son does progress to become an equal to his father.

@catholiccom The Catholic teachings about God are based on axioms that have no cause like creation ex nihilo. Does the Bible really teach such claims? Study more: 2bc.info/pdf/S4N.pdf

Mormons and Catholics believe in two different Gods. Both call God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but each means a totally different thing from the other. In Catholicism, God is three persons in one divine nature. God is immaterial and absolutely simple. In Mormonism, the three persons are distinct in substance and essence. They are made of material and exist in a material world. In Catholicism, God created everything ex nihilo (from nothing). He brings everything into existence, and all existence is contingent on him. God is the uncaused cause—the ultimate explanation of all things. In Mormonism, God does not bring all things into existence from nothing. Instead, he organizes eternally existing matter. This matter has existed forever, and all things, including god, are made by it. This should already suffice to show that Mormons worship an altogether different "god" from Christians, so Mormonism is not a type or denomination of Christianity. But setting aside that debate for the moment, there is a more fundamental question: is the Mormon view a sufficient explanation for why anything exists at all? It is not. Eternal matter cannot explain its own reason for existence, let alone existence itself. Only a theology where God is the very act of being can explain reality fully. Why? Continue reading below 👇

@CBHeresy Does not every Bible faith believe that Mary is a spirit daughter of God? The Bible speaks of God as the Father of Spirits. (Hebrews 12:9) And so Jesus in every Bible faith has a Father that is God and a mother that is a spirit daughter of God. Right?

Christians do not believe Jesus is the product of celestial procreation. Christians do not believe God was once a man who ascended to Godhood on another world. Christians do not believe God dwells near a star called Kolob. Christians do not believe faithful humans can become gods ruling worlds of their own. Christians do not believe that Jesus visited America after His resurrection. Christians do not believe Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers. Christians do not believe there are multiple gods. Christians do not believe God the Father has a physical body of flesh and bone. Christians do not believe Native Americans received dark skin as the result of a curse. Mormons are generally kind people. But kindness is not theology. Many Mormon beliefs—past and present—are fundamentally incompatible with historic Christian doctrine.

@CDavidBelt1 @Sarahsred7 A fetus must have a spirit connection to the spirit preparing to enter it, but the spirit does not enter it until the first breath.

@erichard49 @Sarahsred7 John the Baptist recognized Jesus while within his mother's womb.

I actually disagree with the Church's policy and have said so publicly. But nice try

@farmingandJesus Does not every Bible faith believe that Mary is a spirit daughter of God? The Bible speaks of God as the Father of Spirits. (Hebrews 12:9) And so Jesus in every Bible faith has a Father that is God and a mother that is a daughter of God. Right?

Brigham Young said the following in a discourse given 8 July 1860: "...[T]here is no act, no principle, no power belonging to the Deity that is not purely philosophical. The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." He’s saying sex between the father and Mary created Jesus.

@feisty_forbes Rev 22:18-19 and Deut 4:2 are warnings for mankind. No one is to add or take from the Word God has His servants write. These warnings put ***NO*** conditions on God. Trying to say Rev 22:18 proves that God will never reveal more is doing THE VERY THING THE VERSE WARNS AGAINST

Read the Holy Bible. Cover to cover. Pray about it, asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you. (The final paragraph in the final book, Revelation, provides specific warnings to those who add or take away from it.) Tell us then, after reading the Holy Bible and the revelation of the Holy Spirit whether Mormons believe in the One true God, his ONLY Son, Jesus Christ, or are they following the false teachings of a man in the 1800’s who liked to mimic Christianity and also add and take away from the teachings of the Holy Bible? Praying for you, Mike.

@stephenehorn Jesus in John 16:12-13 promised **MANY** more truths through the Holy Ghost to those who can "bear" it. Paul's writings were a partial fulfillment. Some inspired non-scriptures gave truths. Through Joseph even more truth. MUCH more will come as God restores his millennial Zion.

Mormons are as Christian as Muslims Each religion nominally incorporates the Old and New Testaments into their holy texts, but adds a new blasphemous "revelation" on top

@ryanswalters73 There is evidence of five places in the Book of Mormon that match in the same order locations in Arabia -- also matching the distance and direction between them. youtu.be/5yjKSaegLJg And Hebraisms are found in the Book of Mormon. youtu.be/7_xbqr5WZ_o

As a historian, here are just a few issues I have with the Book of Mormon and the whole tale: National Geographic Society has stated that they’ve never found any evidence from the Book of Mormon. The cities Joseph Smith names have never been found. He mentions writing systems; none have been found. He mentions coinage; none have ever been found. He talks of great battles being fought, yet no graves, no weapons, nothing has been found. He mentions horses and steel, which didn’t exist in the ancient Americas. He mentions a temple like Solomon’s built be the Nephites. It has never been found. In fact, he claims they are lost tribes of Israel, Jewish people. Jews can’t have a temple anywhere on earth but the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. The whole tale is fanciful! Why anyone believes it is a great mystery to me.