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“If there’s enough validity, you’ll scroll down and look at the text.” —@sberlow (with @frerejones et al) in Quartz: qz.com/1018086/this-d…
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Font Bureau
3.1K posts
Font Bureau
@fontbureau
A digital type studio since 1989. We design typefaces and make fonts.
MA Katılım Mart 2009
129 Takip Edilen27.4K Takipçiler
@simoncozens @OhBendy @GranshanConf Are these literally two alphabets, or actually two styles of one. We say one is "writing" and the other "printing", which may be a clue;)
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@TiroTypeworks @benkiel @ninastoessinger @rileycran You've been pushing the base table since 2016 and have never supported, documented or demonstrated anything else on our presence.
And "everyone" does not think I'm talking about UPM scaling, that was answered in the first conversation with MS on this issue and you were present.
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@fontbureau @benkiel @ninastoessinger @rileycran I have been pushing for script-specific vertical metrics for years, as is well documented. At the last TYPO Labs, I also demo'd a concept of a variable font that reacts to available vertical metrics. You can watch the video.
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@ninastoessinger This covers much of what we talked about recently regarding vertical metrics.
#latest" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">typedrawers.com/discussion/455…
Tiro Typeworks@TiroTypeworks
This morning, @anaghanarayanan asked me some questions about font vertical metrics in the context of her Tamil+Latin biscript project. I ended up writing rather a lot in response—productive procrastination for the win!—and Anagha said I could post the exchange to @TypeDrawers.
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@TiroTypeworks @benkiel @ninastoessinger @rileycran Microsoft, Tiro Typeworks and Armenotype, Granshan, Apple and Adobe, have all rejected the independent interoperable variation of vertical metrics in any script, much less among them. The em is latinized and that is apparently final.
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@benkiel @ninastoessinger @rileycran The more I think about it, the more wrong-headed it seems to try to rely on font metrics to automatically vertically centre text in buttons (or any other kind of container). Wrong-headed and also Latin-centric: other scripts utilise vertical space in many different ways.
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@davelab6 @TiroTypeworks @_Undt @alannamun @eliheuer @typeoff @rosettatype @nan_xyz_ @typeler There are, I think, already other scripts hiding in plain sight with a need for registered alignment axes. Remember always, that not registering OS/2's vertical metric as axes was "the" test for how serious MS was about the spec, and if the type industry was about type or wool;)
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I can’t decide if I’m just not very good at writing about typeface designs or if, in fact, there is simply nothing very interesting to say on the subject.
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@davelab6 @hhpapazian @johndberry @TiroTypeworks @TypeDrawers @Typophile ...and before that there was the mafia;)
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@hhpapazian @johndberry @TiroTypeworks @TypeDrawers @Typophile Before typophile there was TYPO-L and before that a Usenet group.....
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Not sure whether I would re-engage with Typophile if this were to come to pass, but I sure would like to be able to rescue the many, many things that I wrote there over the years.
Typophile@Typophile
@sparkleglitch13 we miss you too! not dead, but re-emerging soon after a hiatus.
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@hhpapazian @davelab6 @glyphe @googlefonts @kupfers @arabictype No other links or topics yet, thanks. Grade as the name of the axes and as a value given to styles along it, in both incarnations, is "even more confusing" than what? And what does it mean to have one word "doing more of the work" than another? How does "three" outwork "Grade"?
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@fontbureau @davelab6 @glyphe @googlefonts @kupfers @arabictype I would say the numbers were doing more of the work than the term... But yes, things like Lenora's confounding of grade with lower-contrast are thankfully rare.
The real problem is that the concept of a grade axis is confused. The original brilliance of grade was combining a >>
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The #FontMatrix is a different way of seeing typefaces 🤯 Knowing about it earlier would have saved me a lot of time & guessing, when it comes to choosing, especially to #PairingFonts. It is based on the work of @kupfers, it helped me make more sense of type categorizations. 🧵👇
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@typographica Thanks for the opportunity to give you a broader view. You present the use of font products that benefit “normal” readers for as vast a discussion as you can get...further reading has been provided.
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@hhpapazian @davelab6 @glyphe @googlefonts @kupfers @arabictype "Grade" in instances was part of a style name, but always joined by names like "one", "two" or "three". In variable fonts, the transition to an axis with numerals should not be confused by this change, and has overwhelmingly not been. Thanks.
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@davelab6 @glyphe @googlefonts @kupfers @arabictype But the naming is what's –tellingly– confused. Even in the pre-var age grade was the concept, not the name of a style. And in this age where grade is an axis it's even more confused.
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@TiroTypeworks @dberlow @adamtwar @TypeNetwork @googlefonts @davelab6 We think your exaggeration is funny because we're getting someplace where it counts. Disagreeing on how to present it in a particular way so Latin users may understand more easily, is just more Black/white vs opq/tra, x /y vs y/x, per mille vs whatever...
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@dberlow @adamtwar @TypeNetwork @googlefonts @davelab6 Aaaaaand this is what I love about the whole thing. Just at the point where @googlefonts seems to be getting somewhere in explaining the parametric axes in a particular way, @dberlow comes along and says it isn’t that way at all.🤷
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Are there any examples of TN parametric variable fonts with non-vertical contrast? I am trying to wrap my head around how the x,y parametric model is applied to designs with strong diagonal stress.
@dberlow @TypeNetwork @googlefonts @davelab6
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@TiroTypeworks @googlefonts @OhBendy @dberlow @TypeNetwork @davelab6 @octaviopv @elliotjaystocks Tiro, if "elsewhere" is that cartesian transparency is something we "mark" via sidebearings and kerning pairs, no stress is possible. On the other hand the opaque of type is pretty obviously not strictly used in a cartesian manner. We've covered that with our framework.
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@googlefonts @OhBendy @dberlow @TypeNetwork @davelab6 @octaviopv @elliotjaystocks Yeah, I get that, but the *accident* of thick vs thin in one glyph in one script being conventionally x,y does not make it a good idea to use those labels for what will not be the case in a huge number of other instances, esp. when the system uses x,y conventionally elsewhere.
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@TiroTypeworks @googlefonts @OhBendy @dberlow @TypeNetwork @davelab6 @octaviopv @elliotjaystocks Thanks for remembering, that all fonts, while designed with an often complex hierarchy of values, values that may be used in the type design process, must be compressed to 1 value in OT. To design another any other glyph without "telling yourself" that value, is up to you.
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@googlefonts @OhBendy @dberlow @TypeNetwork @davelab6 @octaviopv @elliotjaystocks So? That doesn’t tell anyone working with any other glyph in any other script anything useful about what these axes are supposed to do. As @OhBendy reported, people are struggling to understand and apply this stuff, and misleadingly labeling things doesn’t help.
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@TiroTypeworks @googlefonts @OhBendy @dberlow @TypeNetwork @davelab6 @octaviopv @elliotjaystocks Thanks if you pick up a marking tool and look to see if it has x and y of its own. Watch people use a marking tool. We think OS/2 values are more inaccurate and more misleading than our framework, relative to typography, but that's news old enough now to be fonts that prove it.
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@googlefonts @OhBendy @dberlow @TypeNetwork @davelab6 @octaviopv @elliotjaystocks I don’t think the use of X/Y in the opaque parametric tags is Latin-centric. I think it is just plain inaccurate and misleading.
x and y in coordinate systems like glyph design space have widely understood conventional meaning: x=horizontal and y=vertical.
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@TiroTypeworks @dberlow @googlefonts @TypeNetwork @davelab6 @octaviopv @elliotjaystocks We put what makes/hides in the glyph table, then fontmake puts it in the gvar table. Left is XOPQ min, right is YOPQ max, (drawn for a much larger design space than this style alone would need BTW).
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@dberlow @googlefonts @TypeNetwork @davelab6 @octaviopv @elliotjaystocks I am trying to parse that in terms of what ‘makes or hides contrast’ in something like this:
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@googlefonts @hhpapazian @Igor_Freiberger @TypeNetwork @dberlow Sounds fishy for someone who hasn't driven it to decide the engine's bad. Besides which, we only built the chassis, cabin, steering and accelerator. The owners of the spec built the engine, (and failed to deliver the brakes on time for this build).😇
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@hhpapazian @Igor_Freiberger @TypeNetwork @dberlow @fontbureau "this car's engine is bad but I refuse to open the bonnet and explain why"
C'mon
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Roboto Flex brilliantly demonstrates @dberlow's, @fontbureau's, and TN's parametric approach to variable font design.
Google Fonts@googlefonts
Roboto Flex by @fontbureau is here! After 5 years of intensive development, its huge range of weights and widths across a complete stack of optical sizes is ready for you to use in all kinds of products and documents. material.io/blog/roboto-fl… 🧵
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@googlefonts @hhpapazian @Igor_Freiberger @TypeNetwork @dberlow Looking may take some time. There are a lot of sizes between "text" and "display." There are a lot of uses considered as both, neither or either, based on reader, distance, script, drift and much more...we wish we knew. Even if found, to dictate such a thing seems... autocratic.
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@googlefonts @hhpapazian @Igor_Freiberger @TypeNetwork @dberlow A toggle... here: graphicore.github.io/varla-varfo/ex…
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@adamtwar @axis_praxis @ArrowType @spikebackpack We figured, if it worked w/monetary symbols where it was needed…
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@axis_praxis @ArrowType @spikebackpack Slice the bar into two halves, the problem should go away. It seems that this problem occurs in some renderers when a contour is partly inside another contour _twice_.
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I honestly can't figure out if this is intentional or not. New type trend OVERLAPS.
found on an article about 𝑔𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑟𝑠
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@espiekermann Der deutsche Großbuchstabe S wird nicht gefunden oder shriftencraffted?;)
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Akzidenz Grotesk Halbfett 60 p. Cast for us by @RainerGerstenberg (last foundry left) Notice the @, €, #, and arrows which we drew & had matrices made for. One of a kind. #letterpress
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@realdougwilson Thank you for your follow up. The designer thinks working on an essay surpasses twitter in answering questions, rhetorical or otherwise.
Will send you a copy in advance, if you ask?
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David Berlow's Custer expands its horizons. Now in Display, Subhead, Text, and Small. The robust construction remains, but now across 4 optical sizes. fontbureau.typenetwork.com/news/article/c…
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