Guih

@ChrisandCox @_GideonGraves @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon Mages remove any interaction from bot and get to scale for free because most adcs aren't strong enough to punish them or can't out range them. Not to mention they do not rely on the support at all, it allows the supp to roam freely while the mage farms

@guihc03_ @_GideonGraves @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon adcs were removed from mid because of their sustain would out last mages mana bars (runes vamp scept dorans) it also was not played v much below top level - paraphrasing endstep mages building lost chapter + tp bot and perma wave clear is degenerate in the same way imo

Patch 26.14 Preview! MSI is in full swing! Had some awesome games and we're pretty happy with the meta overall. There's decent representation across each class (assassins in jungle, a few LeBlanc picks). Nerfing down some of the strongest picks in bot lane have also led to mages bot being more present in the meta. We don't find this state particularly problematic right now, but we have had several conversations about the true power level of mages bots (especially when they carry high winrates). That said, there are a few that are over performing in soloq (seraphine) so she's receiving a nerf, but the overall conversation is a lot more nuanced (which pairings, familiarity as opponents, etc.) Locke - Locke has had a really resonant start - players have resonated with his executes, resets and stack into burst gameplay - he's shown to be a little skill skewed in the same way that a Katarina, akshan or other resetty, roamy champions might be, but not overly so - that said he's still a bit strong when account for mastery growth and true power level - his level of early game snowballing is a bit too high right now - that said, we think his damage is appropriate if he needs to work a little harder to access it. As a result we're nerfing his waveclear (currently) to hit his ability to access it so reliably - we know that one of the things that players find confronting is his damage output right now, but we think it's valuable to retain these types of unique edges in the game for champions Systems - Rocket belt has been one of the premier items for mages (especially immobile) at the highest level for several months now. - We like and embrace this type of innovation, but it's also providing a bit too much versatility and removing a core weakness of these champs (ability to be killed), so forcing a bit stronger of a tradeoff - The other major systems change for this patch is a nerf to the mid boots upgrade for gluttonous greaves - it's adding a nice texture for playing say, mid vs top riven, but it's also the strongest performing boot in that lane and lacks clear counterplay - again, the innovation here is great, but just a bit strong

@pokeling_ @_GideonGraves @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon There's is definitely something wrong when they're more optimal than the role that is designed and balanced around being played in bot. If mages have 50% pickrate in pro, it shows that something is wrong.

@guihc03_ @_GideonGraves @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon what i mean by this is that there is technically speaking nothing wrong with mages being present bot lane from riot's game design point of view, but if mages are too powerful relative to other champions present in the role, they should be nerfed just like other op champions

@pokeling_ @_GideonGraves @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon "most mages don't have anything to inherently "gain" from going bot" They're being picked for fun then, got it.

@guihc03_ @_GideonGraves @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon most mages don't have anything to inherently "gain" from going bot, most mages depend on xp to be strong relative to game state (wave clear breakpoints, etc), that's the important part if mages are op bot, then that's a different issue that should be looked at accordingly

@pokeling_ @_GideonGraves @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon Adcs in top is mainly a champion issue with Vayne and Varus because they have an insane amount of base damage. You can’t play Jinx, Xayah, etc on top but you can play pretty much any mage in bot. Top lane adc issue is champion issue while mages in bot is an entire class issue

@guihc03_ @_GideonGraves @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon adc champions are designed around going bot lane, being able to lane mid gives them too many resources too safely in relation to other champions present in that game this is also why riot is battling with adcs top right now

@pokeling_ @_GideonGraves @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon That’s what mages are doing in bot too? They use the fact that its a safe class to just farm, get first item sooner than an adc(because it’s cheaper) and impact the map earlier with TP, not to mention they get to abuse the extra gold and the supp can roam a lot more too

@guihc03_ @_GideonGraves @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon mostly because adcs had "degenerate" play patterns mid where they would circumvent the inherent weaknesses of bot lane as a role (less xp, 2v2 + longer lane -> more vulnerable) this does not happen with mages bot lane

@Nethrez @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon Then allow adcs, bruisers, tanks to be picked in mid, jungle, supp like they’re doing with mages, the only class you can play in each role

@shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon Why would we not be? It's good that botlane can be played by more than one class.

@Squishey_ @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon Mage vs mage is extremely uninteractive and boring to watch. Watching players like Peyz picking mages is genuinely depressing when you know what the guy can do with an adc. They need to nerf mages asap

@shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon What's wrong with mages in bot? Do we want Riot to kill champion diversity?

@_GideonGraves @shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon Explain why they nerfed adcs when they were picked in mid then

@shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon Riot devs have said several times they think the game is better when there's multiple classes of champions you can play in each role

@shawn_odonaghue @RiotPhroxzon They will never nerf mages bot, they have been an issue for years but their bias is too large to nerf them. Even now that they are being picked in pro they still say it’s not problematic, but if it was adcs picked in mid they would nerf the entire role next patch lol

@RiotPhroxzon I don't understand why we're happy w/ mages being in bot lane

@royalwinsmid @CrownshotLoL I would gladly trade the extra gold for stats so mages cant just abuse the gold

@CrownshotLoL Can they just make the bot lane quest give attack speed/ad/crit already

After watching MSI and doing extensive research I've decided on the new 26.13 patch botlane tier list 🤓 I Suggest we fully boycott ADCs until RIOT does something What do you guys think ?:)

@kczaban_ @tttttyuc They’re probably going to nerf mages before summer or buff adc idk. I think the main reason mages are op in bot is because their items are cheaper, especially first items so they hit powerspikes faster and you can speed up the game from that, not to mention the safe lane phase

@tttttyuc we about to get the most disghusting adc meta for summer

RIOOOOOOOT GAAAAAAAAMESSSSSS

@crissthewea @tttttyuc Yeah the role is called Ad carry

@tttttyuc The lane it's called bot lane not ADC lane

@Uathuil_ @tttttyuc Mage bot abuser spotted

@tttttyuc i feel like im the only one who finds mages bot being in the meta to be fun and different😭

@tttttyuc Pro players realizing that mages are broken in bot lane and have been for years and Riot just refuses to nerf them because of “low pick rate”

@apressori @Abyss_ix Eastern players sometimes even bench themselves knowing that their current form is not great and are being a liability for the team more than anything (happened with TES for example). The only western player to do this ever was Rekkles back in 2018 with mage bot meta

@apressori @Abyss_ix "fast track to demolishing Hans mental for any of the matches after" This western mentality is so ass. If a player gets benched in the LCK he will see that as an opportunity to improve and be stronger next time he plays but LEC player can't get benched or he's gonna cry

Hear me out: So let's say mages bot are meta and objectively the best way to play the game. What if u had the best player of all time for that specific playstyle on ur team? Can u not just do the funniest thing ever against T1?

@drewlevin @ClearInsanityX One thing I noticed is that this season waiting 2 minutes in queue is already enough to get autofilled, happened to me multiple times which didn’t happen in previous seasons

@drewlevin @ClearInsanityX Waiting 1-2 minutes for a game in master or even diamond makes no sense to me, increase the time slightly even a minute can make all the difference between finding the right player or not.

trying my best to manifest Lyon v G2 in losers bracket so NA can send both EU teams home

@KujotShi @RFTGGlol U know EU adcs are bad when the last good adc in EU wasn't even an adc main

@RFTGGlol eu sucks at producing good adc lol the last one was a guy who was roleswapped from mid his name was Perkz

G2 Hans Sama 🇫🇷 receives a 2.0 community rating after G2’s 0-3 loss to HLE 🇰🇷: “Hans Sama as well as Caliste showed the level of the best LEC ADC players against the top teams”