(((iambored)))

My newest game, Waiting Room, is out now! Get it here: waiting-room.in #indiegame #indiegames #indiedev

@Algor_Mortis1 @notadampaul @WKCosmo In the case of computers you could certainly say that at the electrical level, a computer is not a computing machine but a deterministic electromagnetic system, but that doesn't at all negate the reality of the computing that supervenes on top of the physical components.

@Algor_Mortis1 @notadampaul @WKCosmo And finally, you seem to have rephrased your fundamental objection. You say: "At the molecular level life is not an algorithm but a deterministic chemical system." I'm sorry, but you're once again appealing to magical thinking.

This completely misunderstands how scientific models work. Physicists model systems as masses on springs not because they are using a "metaphor", but because systems near equilibrium are mathematically isomorphic to a harmonic oscillator. In the case of DNA, it's literally code.

@Algor_Mortis1 @notadampaul @WKCosmo From what I understood when I read on the subject, and I may of course be wrong here, there's a certain degree of arbitrariness to the genetic code, which is why you find a different code, with the same codons encoding different amino acids, in e.g. plants.

@iambored2006 @notadampaul @WKCosmo If something is arbitrary, I can substitute some A for B without change of functionality. So algebraic variables can be arbitrarily denoted a or x. Letters can be this or that. Not so with the genetic code! It is redundant and non- random. It also affects DNA stability.

@FromCTooX @WKCosmo I would say that metaphors are useful fundamentally because reality is replete with isomorphisms.

@WKCosmo I mean, isn’t an isomorphism a specific case of metaphor ?

@Norse_Heithinn @justforx8985828 @karol In other words, you caved under the pressure of the libels. I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm afraid Israel will keep chugging on without you, Gary, and it won't be doing it through war crimes. In the meantime, please stop carrying water for the attackers of my people abroad.

@justforx8985828 @karol No, you don't think. You believe and project what you wish to believe. For 57 years of my life I supported Israel unquestioningly. That stopped when the war crimes began. I will, however, identify you as a despicable individual for your support if Israel's actions.

The whole "don't stab Jews because you can't know if they support Netanyahu's policies" is a terrible argument. You're actually allowed to have any opinions you want without getting stabbed. It used to be a whole thing we believed in the west. Don't cater to third worldism.

@Algor_Mortis1 @notadampaul @WKCosmo Nothing is truly arbitrary in this sense, since everything depends on some sort of history that is ultimately reducible to the physical. On the flipside, the genetic code is certainly arbitrary to a limited degree. In fact, life is full of arbitrariness.

@notadampaul @WKCosmo The function of DNA can be defined as a non intentionally evolved determinstic chemical system. Other code contains elements that are to a degree arbitrary: an evolved system can't be arbitrary: it depends strictly on physical history. Intentional code--->arbitrary elements

@Algor_Mortis1 @foomagemindset The analogy to gravity applies just as much to you as it does to the ribosome. If absolutely no intentionality can be ascribed to the ribosome, if it's 'on the same level' as a rock, then either humans are magically, miraculously different, or we're nothing but confused rocks.

@foomagemindset If you say that a lightbulb uses electricity in order to make light, thats appropriate because that is the designed function of a lightbulb. If you say a rock uses gravity in order to roll down hill yes I would quibble with that.

@orthonormalist Judging this to be barbaric isn't a valid secular take, unless you're a militant vegan. In any other case, it's at best hypocrisy.

There's a few funny reactions to this: "This is barbaric!" valid secular take "Baal worshippers!" read your OT "Christ invalidated this!" I highly doubt they believe in the NT "This is a PR campaign!" you are a schizo "Jewish bloodthirst!" again, read the OT

@spamspam111113 @Plinz @unit_accord And that's a good thing in your opinion.. Guess what, Jews will outlast and destroy any antisocial horror show tyranny you have planned, like we always do.

@Plinz @unit_accord It is ridiculous to argue about. Free will and agency are a hallucination. The people that dont care about your ancient god complex will just use technology to overwrite your brain and get you to believe in less ridiculous things.

I think it was a mistake for our culture to dismiss religion, instead of understanding and redesigning it with rational epistemology. Religion defines the intentionality and structure of the superorganism. Without seeing the shape of the superstructure, we cannot derive ethics.

@Plinz @algekalipso @vidhvatm What you're suggesting is a tower of Babel. The human mind cannot "model the superstructure of reality". It's too finite and feeble. Prophecy, time tested for millennia, is the best you're gonna get.

@algekalipso @vidhvatm Buddhism is not a very successful social design, compared to eg. Calvinism. Getting metaphysics and branding right is only a small part of religion, and modeling the superstructure of reality should be treated as a scientific project, not as ancient teachings.

@8Korgi Yeah, that's a very good point. I honestly have no idea where America should be going in this regard. It can't turn its back on its civic nationalism without destroying everything it stands for. Not my place to tell you guys what you should do, but I have a lot of faith in the US

@iambored2006 America definitely cannot be a homogeneous country or have that kind of unity-I think that is primarily why people don't like multiculturalism, because like Plato says it divides a city, racial tension with George Floyd is a good example; half the city mourns, other half doesn't.

Here is my official position on Christianity: The New Testament was "written to fulfill prophecy" (i.e., fabricated or retrofitted after the fact) not a recording a historical person genuinely fulfilling Old Testament expectations They drew on existing Jewish hopes that the God of Israel would one day be worshiped by the nations, and used a Jesus figure to make that happen Jewish scriptures already contain strong themes of universal worship: - Isaiah 2:2-4, 11:10, 42:6, 49:6, 56:6-7 - Gentiles streaming to the God of Israel, the nations worshiping at the Temple, Israel as a "light to the Gentiles." - Zechariah 8:23, 14:16 - Foreigners grabbing hold of Jews to learn about God; all nations coming to Jerusalem. - Psalms 22:27, 86:9, etc. - All families of the nations worshiping the Lord. These passages created an expectation that the God of Israel would eventually draw the whole world. Gentiles (Greeks, Romans, etc.) had no reason to care about Jewish scriptures. Why trust the Jews’ prophets? Their God seemed tribal and weak - His people were conquered repeatedly, the Temple was destroyed, and many prophecies of restoration and worldwide rule looked like obvious failures or unfulfilled boasts. Dismissing Jewish prophecy as fraudulent or mythical would have been the default skeptical response. The NT Solution: Jesus as Proof That the Prophecies Are Real By centering the story on "Jesus fulfilled the prophecies," the New Testament does something very powerful: - It retroactively validates the entire Old Testament prophetic tradition in Gentile eyes: “Look these ancient Jewish writings weren’t empty promises or lies. They were accurate predictions pointing to this man. Therefore, the God behind them is the true God.” - Jesus becomes the living demonstration that the prophecies work. Every claimed fulfillment acts as evidence: “See? Micah was right about Bethlehem. Zechariah was right about the donkey. Isaiah was right about the suffering servant. Psalm 22 was right about the details of the crucifixion.” This creates a halo effect - if these prophecies came true, then the whole system is trustworthy. Some “fulfillments” are real stretches from the original context (e.g., Hosea 11:1 “Out of Egypt I called my son” applied to Jesus’ family fleeing - originally about Israel). Others appear to have no clear prior prophecy at all and are completely made up, yet the Gospels still frame events as fulfillment Why do this? Because the goal wasn’t just to tell Jesus’ story. It was to rescue and legitimize Jewish prophecy itself for outsiders. If Jesus checks enough boxes, then skeptics can’t easily write off the OT as failed or made-up. The prophecies are proven reliable and therefore the God who gave them is real and powerful. Claiming Jesus fulfilled the prophecies wasn’t mainly about documenting history - it was about saving the credibility of Jewish prophecy in the eyes of a skeptical Gentile world. And this is Paul’s Ultimate Strategy: “Saving Israel” Through the Gentiles He use the Gentiles to validate and advance Israel’s mission Christianity becomes Judaism for the world: “The prophecies are true. The God of Israel is the only God. Jesus is the proof and the door for you Gentiles.” It doesn’t replace Judaism - it spreads its core claims universally. Paul’s mission wasn’t primarily “start a new religion.” It was a strategic workaround: Get the nations to adopt the Jewish God and prophetic framework, with Jesus as the fulfillment hook By making Jesus the fulfillment (or partial fulfillment) of the prophecies: - It gives Gentiles a compelling reason to worship the Jewish God and accept Jesus as Messiah/Lord: “This ancient tradition was right all along” - It positions Christianity as the vehicle for the OT promises of Gentile inclusion (Isaiah’s “light to the nations,” etc.). This legitimization was essential. Without it, why would a Roman or Greek abandon their gods for a crucified Jewish preacher’s movement? The historical success of Christianity achieved key elements of the Jewish prophetic vision (as later summarized by thinkers like Rambam/Maimonides in his views on the nations coming to recognize the true God): -Destruction of idolatry: Pagan gods of Rome, Greece, northern Europe, etc., were systematically replaced or erased. The old idol worship of the nations largely collapsed wherever Christianity spread. -Spread of the God of Israel and Torah ethics: Gentiles adopted monotheism, the moral framework of the Hebrew Bible (Ten Commandments, etc.), and the idea of a single Creator God. Bibles (containing the Torah and Prophets) went global. -Worldwide recognition: The God of a small, repeatedly crushed people (conquered by Assyria, Babylon, Rome) became the dominant deity of empires. No other gods are seriously recognized in most of the former pagan world. -Gentiles as the carriers: Ironically, it was the Gentile converts, not the Jews themselves, who spread this faith aggressively across the Roman Empire and beyond, fulfilling the “nations streaming to the mountain of the Lord” motif in a way Paul envisioned. The Jews were often persecuted and powerless, yet their God and scriptures triumphed through this vehicle. The historical irony is that the God of a perpetually conquered people ultimately conquered His conquerors - not through military might or political power, but through a story. The God of the slaves and the vanquished won the hearts and minds of the masters

@MarkChangizi Or that Middle Easterners who hate Jews should somehow be excused because of contrived grievances.

How about not presuming Middle Eastern peoples support brutal oppressive Islamofascists. How about not assuming that Middle Eastern peoples hate Israel and the U.S. just because you do.

@8Korgi @seethroughit2 I hope you didn't take offense at my crass remarks earlier. FWIW, I sincerely believe that evolution is God's right hand, and that inevitably, the healthy elements in your civilization will win out over the deleterious and get you out of your mess. Natural selection. Cheers!

@8Korgi @seethroughit2 I see. Then yeah, Plato seems to concur with the Bible in this regard. Israel is often either the person or the people, interchangeably and deliberately. I'm honestly way out of my depth here, kudos to you on the breadth of knowledge! Thanks for the interesting conversation,