ilya u. topper

30.4K posts

ilya u. topper banner
ilya u. topper

ilya u. topper

@ilyatopper

Periodista en Estambul y el Mediterráneo. Cofundador y editor de la revista M'Sur · https://t.co/WDpoFBJgD7

istanbul Katılım Aralık 2011
6.7K Takip Edilen14K Takipçiler
Sabitlenmiş Tweet
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
Hace un mes, día dos del ataque de Estados Unidos e Israel a Irán, escribí esta columna para El Confidencial. Explicando por qué no se puede predecir qué pasará con esta guerra. Y no, no es porque nos falte información sobre Irán. Eso no es lo grave. msur.es/actualidad/no-… ·
Español
2
5
16
1.4K
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@rrrrr_adrian @AdoniLabanon Maltese is clearly an offshoot of Maghrebi Arabic, in grammar and structure, not just of any "Spoken Arabic". That is because grammar structures are clearly differentiated between different spoken varieties of Arabic, and have been for centuries.
English
0
0
0
5
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@rrrrr_adrian @AdoniLabanon Disagree. Diglossia is not a criterion. There has been generations with Spanish-Catalan diglossia and they have never been considered 1 language for that (they belong to different Romance branches). Tying together doesn't mean confusing languages. Maltese is Maghrebi, in fact.
English
1
0
0
12
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@AdoniLabanon @rrrrr_adrian But don't take this identity as a criterion to evaluate reality. Turkish courts defined Kurdish as a "non-existent language" during decades. For many Turkish nationalists, believing that was part of their Turkish identity. So what?
English
1
0
0
10
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@AdoniLabanon @rrrrr_adrian We don't have to dictate anything about the feelings of anybody. We are not law-makers. We just have to define things from a scientific viewpoint. When the word "identity" comes up, science has no business in being around any longer. Let people make their identity as they wish. >
English
1
0
0
9
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@BorisBotenov @rrrrr_adrian I agree, but take into account that intelligibility is a very stretchable concept, which depends a lot of who understands what, of habits and of personal ability of quick adaption. So it's not clear-cut. Many Portuguese understand Spanish, but few Spaniards understand Portuguese.
English
1
0
4
145
Boris Botenov
Boris Botenov@BorisBotenov·
@rrrrr_adrian @ilyatopper To the extent there is an understanding of the boundary between languages, it's mutual intelligibility. It's sort of obvious that lack of mutual intelligibility means something can't be the same language, or we have to change our entire understanding of what a language is.
English
1
0
2
164
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@AdoniLabanon @rrrrr_adrian > but for anybody speaking about language, and not about politics, it should be more than obvious that we can't just buy that concept. It would take away any empirical ground from lingüistics. Language criteria are never strict, but there must be some common-sense criteria.
English
1
0
1
17
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@AdoniLabanon @rrrrr_adrian The "glottopolitical" concept is rather fascinating. In Spain we have an example with Catalan and Valencian, often described as 2 different languages by politicians. A written text in both languages differs in around 1 letter every 3-4 pages. So politicians may say "language" >
English
1
0
1
18
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@rrrrr_adrian Not a strict one, but it's mostly agreed that only different phonetics, or only different vocabulary, or only a different grammar, are not enough to consider a variety as a language. But when all three apply, then... Then I can't see any reason to resist the definition.
English
1
0
2
82
R. Adrian (PalWeb)
R. Adrian (PalWeb)@rrrrr_adrian·
@ilyatopper listen i know what you’re trying to say but the concept of a language doesn’t have a strict scientific definition, so you can’t determine what is a language based on strict & universal linguistic criteria; unity of social history & use plays a role
English
2
0
2
242
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@rrrrr_adrian Ok, than we can go to another generally assumed fact among specialists which is hard to get into the general public: There is only one Romance language, with several spoken varieties, called incidentally Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian and so on, but they are dialects.
English
1
0
4
258
R. Adrian (PalWeb)
R. Adrian (PalWeb)@rrrrr_adrian·
@ilyatopper language > variety > dialect yes, one variety with many dialects, several of which, yes, are mutually unintelligible. (Standard & Spoken may also be mutually unintelligible in speech depending on dialect, tho native speakers don’t generally experience that bc of diglossia.)
English
1
0
5
265
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@sycration @lastmohican75 @rrrrr_adrian This is not a good map. 1) Somali Arabic doesn't exist as far as I know. Seems to be invented for the map. 2) All the different colours suggest similar distance. Moroccan and Algerian Arabic are in reality just regional variation with the same basic grammar and phonetics. Etc.
English
0
0
0
18
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@rrrrr_adrian This would mean that "Spoken Arabic" is 1 variety of the two. One variety? Really? "Spoken Arabic in Iraq" and "Spoken Arabic in Morocco" are at least as different as Spanish and Italian, and that includes two quite different brands of grammar, yes, not to speak about phonetics.
English
2
0
4
290
R. Adrian (PalWeb)
R. Adrian (PalWeb)@rrrrr_adrian·
@ilyatopper that’s not what i said & i would be careful with this framing, bc “language” is an amorphous concept. Arabic is best described as a single language having two distinct but interdependent varieties (Standard vs. Spoken) that coexist & are mixed to varying degrees in practice.
English
1
0
14
1.1K
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@Dani6CBP__ Salvo demostración pública y fehaciente de lo contrario, obviamente se trata de una falsificación.
Español
0
0
3
191
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@Javi_Bluemonday @Dani6CBP__ Es un poco como los restaurantes marroquíes que sirven el cuscús en el cacharro de tayín; si lo pusieran en un plato normal, como se hace en Marruecos, nadie pediría cuscús. (Equivalente a servir un cocido madrileño en una paellera para que parezca español de verdad).
Español
0
0
1
62
Javier
Javier@Javi_Bluemonday·
@ilyatopper @Dani6CBP__ En Bournemouth hay un sitio de paellas español. Todas llevan chorizo. Me dijeron que si no ponían chorizo no iba nadie.
Español
1
0
3
73
Céline Martin
Céline Martin@CelineMartinGev·
@ilyatopper @Dani6CBP__ Pero... ¿el döner kebab no es un invento alemán? (me refiero, de turcos afincados en Alemania, yo no comparto la concepción völkisch de los alemanes)
Español
1
0
0
94
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
@Democrata_O_ Si yo tuviera tantas ganas de no hablar de todas estas cosas, no escribiría columnas.
Español
1
0
0
34
Demócrata Obrerista
Demócrata Obrerista@Democrata_O_·
@ilyatopper No hablaría de capacidad de represión de la policía iraní, demostrada con toda crueldad en enero pasado.
Español
1
0
0
28
ilya u. topper
ilya u. topper@ilyatopper·
Hace un mes, día dos del ataque de Estados Unidos e Israel a Irán, escribí esta columna para El Confidencial. Explicando por qué no se puede predecir qué pasará con esta guerra. Y no, no es porque nos falte información sobre Irán. Eso no es lo grave. msur.es/actualidad/no-… ·
Español
2
5
16
1.4K

Keşfet

@rrrrr_adrian @AdoniLabanon @BorisBotenov @lastmohican75 @MSur_es @sycration @Agus_Martinez58 @elonmusk