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@jmsgwd

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Scotland Katılım Eylül 2011
548 Takip Edilen70 Takipçiler
jmsgwd
jmsgwd@jmsgwd·
@robinhanson @pwlot I don't think this is correct, Chalmers didn't make that claim - for the reason described here: x.com/jmsgwd/status/…
jmsgwd@jmsgwd

This is wrong. Chalmers does not claim that a process could have exactly the same [computed] thoughts with or without it being conscious. What he claims is more like this: 1/ there's a gap in our understanding in that we can't explain why physical processes alone give rise to phenomenal consciousness; 2/ to prove that this "explanatory gap" exists, he says let's consider the scenario you describe ("p-zombies") as a thought experiment; 3/ since you cannot give any definitive reason why p-zombies are impossible, that proves that the gap in our understanding must be real. This argument does *not* require that p-zombies are actually possible in real life. It only requires us to be unable to explain why they're impossible. Indeed, Chalmers himself said "zombies are probably not naturally possible: they probably cannot exist in our world, with its laws of nature." At some point in the future, someone might eventually figure out a convincing explanation for why phenomenal consciousness occurs (e.g. that it happens inevitably as an "emergent property" of being functionally conscious). If so, that would be perfectly consistent with Chalmers' argument. He doesn't claim that there will *always* be a gap in our understanding. He's only saying that there is *currently* a gap in our understanding. Without a convincing explanation for phenomenal consciousness, ideas like it being "an emergent property of being functionally conscious" are essentially just hunches (albeit appealing ones). They don't explain how or why it occurs as an emergent property; they merely conjecture that it does. Chalmers is effectively calling them out as hunches, and saying that's why the hard problem is hard.

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Robin Hanson
Robin Hanson@robinhanson·
@pwlot Are you denying my claim that Chalmers, among others claimed "a process could have exactly the same [computed] thoughts with or w/o it being conscious"?
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Robin Hanson
Robin Hanson@robinhanson·
The usual "hard problem" framing of consciousness says a process could have exactly the same thoughts with or w/o it being conscious. In this case, if something thinks it is conscious seems to offer no evidence for whether it actually is. So there's no point in asking it.
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jmsgwd
jmsgwd@jmsgwd·
This is wrong. Chalmers does not claim that a process could have exactly the same [computed] thoughts with or without it being conscious. What he claims is more like this: 1/ there's a gap in our understanding in that we can't explain why physical processes alone give rise to phenomenal consciousness; 2/ to prove that this "explanatory gap" exists, he says let's consider the scenario you describe ("p-zombies") as a thought experiment; 3/ since you cannot give any definitive reason why p-zombies are impossible, that proves that the gap in our understanding must be real. This argument does *not* require that p-zombies are actually possible in real life. It only requires us to be unable to explain why they're impossible. Indeed, Chalmers himself said "zombies are probably not naturally possible: they probably cannot exist in our world, with its laws of nature." At some point in the future, someone might eventually figure out a convincing explanation for why phenomenal consciousness occurs (e.g. that it happens inevitably as an "emergent property" of being functionally conscious). If so, that would be perfectly consistent with Chalmers' argument. He doesn't claim that there will *always* be a gap in our understanding. He's only saying that there is *currently* a gap in our understanding. Without a convincing explanation for phenomenal consciousness, ideas like it being "an emergent property of being functionally conscious" are essentially just hunches (albeit appealing ones). They don't explain how or why it occurs as an emergent property; they merely conjecture that it does. Chalmers is effectively calling them out as hunches, and saying that's why the hard problem is hard.
Robin Hanson@robinhanson

@pwlot Are you denying my claim that Chalmers, among others claimed "a process could have exactly the same [computed] thoughts with or w/o it being conscious"?

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jmsgwd
jmsgwd@jmsgwd·
@chengyi555468 @kortexa_ai @Sauers_ This isn’t very convincing - if you spend all day learning a new skill like playing the piano or riding a bike, by the evening you have, to some degree, acquired a new skill. Do you think “the current state of the context window” could contain new skills in that sense?
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chengyi
chengyi@chengyi555468·
@jmsgwd @kortexa_ai @Sauers_ that may just be the current state of the context window, not actual learning (which happens at night)
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Sauers
Sauers@Sauers_·
1. Showing that a theory is trivial does not make it false; 2. A human brain which doesn't do weight updates for a bit wouldn't stop being conscious; 3. LLMs have dynamic internal state via their context window, like short-term electrical activity in our brains.
Erik Hoel@erikphoel

1. 🚨 Finally I get to share my new paper: "A Disproof of LLM Consciousness." I show that *no* falsifiable and non-trivial theories of consciousness could ever work for LLMs. Intriguingly, turns out that cracking continual learning might change this web3.arxiv.org/pdf/2512.12802

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jmsgwd
jmsgwd@jmsgwd·
@kortexa_ai @Sauers_ How do you then explain the fact that you can learn and commit things to memory while awake?
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kortexa.ai
kortexa.ai@kortexa_ai·
@Sauers_ It is possible that the process of sleeping is effectively "weight updating". If that is the case, a human brain that does not do that, ie does not sleep, indeed would go bonkers (the proper scientific term for "stop being conscious")
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jmsgwd
jmsgwd@jmsgwd·
Big fire in Glasgow City Centre, near Wilson Street
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MailOnline Video
MailOnline Video@MailOnlineVideo·
@jmsgwd Hello, I work for the Daily Mail. Did you film this? Can we please use your video & screen grabs in our video player, website, apps and social accounts? We’ll fully credit back to you. Please find our terms here: bit.ly/3IsIZO9 Thank you, NN
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PALucindaC
PALucindaC@PALucindaC·
@jmsgwd Hello, I'm a journalist with the Press Association news agency, please would it be possible for us to use your videos with credit to you?
PALucindaC tweet media
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jmsgwd
jmsgwd@jmsgwd·
@Ems38507816 Actually Scottish Fire and Rescue Service said it’s the 4th floor of the Revolver Hotel, which is next door to House of Gods.
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Nadia Ali
Nadia Ali@NadiaAl52962681·
@jmsgwd Hi! It’s Nadia Ali from TV Asahi - Japanese broadcaster. Would it be possible to use this footage of yours?
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jmsgwd
jmsgwd@jmsgwd·
Out on Wilson Street
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jmsgwd
jmsgwd@jmsgwd·
@karennawoc Looks like mostly smoke and embers now.
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James Cook
James Cook@BBCJamesCook·
@jmsgwd Hi. Did you film these videos? Would we be able to use them on BBC News please? Thanks very much for your help.
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jmsgwd
jmsgwd@jmsgwd·
Less flames, firemen on the roof now
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Craig Williams
Craig Williams@glasgowmixtape·
@jmsgwd Hi there I work with The Herald is it ok to use the video in a story on the fire with a credit? Thanks
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