Joel
2.8K posts

Joel
@joelthorst
📃 https://t.co/bYrKHCpj9t - Publish on Ethereum
Midgård Katılım Şubat 2016
1K Takip Edilen2.6K Takipçiler
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Joel retweetledi

@lightcoin Right I tend to agree then. IMO ENS and alternativs Are mostly useful for hosting app / websites more securely.
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@joelthorst globally unique, human-meaningful names for addresses (to use the terminology from Zooko's triangle)
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In the wake of the ENS drama a novel governance experiment is playing out on Ethereum. Two protocols, .wei and .gwei are competing for mindshare. The main differentiator is how they are governed.
.wei charges fees. A DAO governs the treasury. Voting power is based on how much you spent on buying names. Votes are passed using conviction voting. The project is created by @z0r0zzz
.gwei burns fees. There is no governance. The code itself is a fork of .wei made by @donnoh_eth
Both approaches take fairly neutral stances. Will the market favor one or the other? Can the WEI DAO use their treasury to grow faster than .gwei?
I'll be watching curiously!
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@lightcoin Is this directed mostly at names for addreses or actually to serve websites?
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@lightcoin How is DNS a dead-end? It works pretty well as far as I'm concerned.
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@joelthorst ideally people will learn from OGs who walked this path before and came to the conclusion that it's a dead-end
x.com/zooko/status/1…
zooko🛡🦓🦓🦓 ⓩ@zooko
@lightcoin @0xstark DNS and ENS is a dead-end side path on the road to usable, secure, scalable naming. And so are the global name/identifier/lookup services in BlueSky, Farcaster, and so on. ⤵️
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For the past 5 months several unwell people @LidoFinance have been trying to build the most private AI imaginable. Today I'm opening the waitlist.
Wisp (@usewisp_io) is the antithesis to Sam and Dario's 'trust me bro' privacy. Architected so no one - even Wisp - can read, train on or retain your data.
Waitlist: usewisp.io
How it works:

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En utredning vill låta myndigheterna utföra dataintrång för att få tillgång till uppgifter i och ta kontroll över informationssystem, blockera och radera information online, installera spionprogram och utnyttja tekniska sårbarheter – i förebyggande syfte...
femtejuli.se/2026/07/01/utr…
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AIs governing DAOs.
Gonna be a thing.
Pretty much has to be the end game. It's the only DAO you could really trust.
Nick Almond@DrNickA
DAOs governing AIs. Gonna be a thing. Pretty much has to be the end game. It’s the only AI you could really trust.
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Hard to keep track of all the ethereum:native orgs???
✨ check out eth.sh/orgs

jasperthefriendlyghost.eth@drjasper_eth
Someone pls make an Ethereum directory so we can keep track of all these orgs
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@LefterisJP I mean if the meta is an Ethereum org for every niche, adoption is inevitable.
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Agree that the design space is under explored. For example I'm excited to see live systems using private voting from things like @theInterfold
Wouldn't small unit of work that is easy to verify be something you can just have an agent do? IMO intersubjective understanding of a goal that is hard to verify is more interesting and likely more applicable to the real world.
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@joelthorst I agree that spending funds is part of what a DAO should do, but I think the compound style DAO proposals may not be it.
There should be a small unit of work that is easy to verify that contributes to the collective goal. Without that it’s just politics with poor management.
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@auryn_macmillan If there was secret votes, nick would probably have participated from the start and all of this would be less of an issue.
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I've been at ENS for 9 years now. The first 4 years it was basically just me, Nick, Makoto and a few people that have come and left since then. We were always less than 10 people. Nick has been building ENS for a decade. 10 fucking years. blog.ethereum.org/2016/07/11/tay… This is a blog post from the EF in 2016.
Write a list off the top of your head of crypto founders still building and CEOing their own company after a decade. I'll wait. It's short.
When ENS released in 2017 I was just one of the community, and only shortly after did I join and build the first version of the ENS app. At the beginning of 2018 we formed ENS Labs (True Names Limited back then) and we were finally a real company, with a $1 million grant from the EF. For the next 3 years we survived on this. We built something that was integrated into all the major Ethereum wallets, helped the UX of web3, and were an example of what a non-financial application on Ethereum looks like. We were builders, we were optimists, and we were purists.
In 2021 we started the process of decentralising ENS. Why? Because as purists we believed the protocol should not just be governed by us. The protocol, not the treasury.
To do that we went with a DAO that uses token voting. It was an experiment compound, uniswap and others had tried and it seemed 'battle-tested'. There are many things wrong with token voting, but only 5 years dealing with a DAO actually shows you the real one. It isn't just plutocracy, it's the politics of everyone having an opinion about who gets a part of this huge treasury.
We wanted to decentralise the levers it takes to govern the protocol, pricing, upgrades etc… we didn't actually have to send the treasury to the governor contract. But we did, because we felt the DAO had more legitimacy, and it did. It also attracted a hoard of people that labs had to govern. We tried to be welcoming, to be open to people and not exert our influence so the grass could grow. But what it also did is create a honey pot with 0 accountability that anyone that is willing to make an account on our forums has the chance of taking a piece of. And we have given, a lot. Given over 50% of all grants to parties outside of ENS Labs. Labs took less than 50% of the treasury spend to date. Name another protocol whose core team has taken less of the revenue than outsiders.
Labs has always been about building ENS, and so for many years we decided not to use our tokens, but to let the "community" find a way to properly allocate the funds. But this has failed. In hindsight it was so clear, how could we expect to give millions of dollars to a contract that is governed by token holders (that we as labs are refraining from voting in) who aren't qualified (and it's not their job to be) to do treasury management. Yes we were stupid to do this, but we were idealists.
We've turned from idealists to pragmatists. We spent two years building Namechain, our own L2, and we killed it the moment Ethereum scaled and the maths changed. We're not precious about our own work, and the DAO is no different. I would like for DAOs to work as much as anyone else, but they don't, and not a single DAO out there is the vision of what we thought it could be half a decade ago. But ENS is not just a DAO, it's a protocol, a successful protocol that needs longevity and stewards for decades and not to be pillaged by DAO opportunists. A foundation does not remove the ability for the community to be funded, but there will be more accountability, more RFPs, and more value being driven to the protocol.
This isn't to say nothing worthwhile has been funded by the DAO. It has, but the ratio of cruft to worth is far too high. It is not how you build a universal protocol for the internet. To those that think it is, you are thinking too short term. ENS needs to keep building. We are nowhere close to the size of DNS, or the size of a single large username system (X, whatsapp, telegram). We need to keep integrating. If we wanted to exit scam and run, it would be far easier to just dump all our ENS and call it a day.
And to everyone suddenly worried about voting power: labs didn't vote for years. We stayed out on purpose, to let the grass grow, and that is the exact thing that let this honey pot fester. The one time Nick actually votes, you call it tyranny?
And this isn't to say that labs is perfect either, but we really do want ENS to succeed, we want it to flourish, first we need to rectify the mistakes of the past. When something is broken, you fix it. ENS is as decentralised as it was before, the .eth registrar has been locked for years and no one can steal your name. The only thing that is changing is we need a proper organisation to manage and allocate these funds.
And for those personally attacking Nick.
Nick isn't stealing anything.
Nick is one of the smartest and most morally upright people I know.
No one could have built ENS the way Nick has built ENS. And they have tried.
Nick could have left a long time ago, but he hasn't.
Whilst you guys are arguing over the end of ENS, we'll keep on building.
P.S. AI image is so the main image was not the blog from EF

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@LefterisJP Slop agents... They seem to open PRs ön incorrect repos often
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@joelthorst we don't. So no idea what he is trying to say. We use coinbase api ofc.
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Joel retweetledi

futarchy is too complicated and governance heavy.
v's original daico design was way simpler and more elegant.
let's me work with claude to ship a simple, immutable, no-governance daico platform.
ethresear.ch/t/explanation-…
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