CatholicOnX

@chesterbelloc3 @fr_geckle @Catholicizm1 The Pope has full authority over the liturgy. The Novus Ordo has theological problems. While the 55 changes were badly made, they do not objectively represent a theological break, only an unwise change breaking from the traditional spirit of the Roman Rite.

@fr_geckle @Catholicizm1 I do, actually. They're the embodiment of all he writes against in Mediator Dei. If one can so drastically change the liturgy at a whim, what's the problem with the NO in Latin?

I have no idea what this is in reference to but it’s not helping break the stereotype of weirdos being attracted to the Sede position.

@chesterbelloc3 @Catholicizm1 I would say that Pius XII respected the liturgical movement, which began as a good movement, so when the top scholars of the liturgical movement became modernist he easily got hoodwinked. Mediator Dei itself in wholly traditional, but his experts abused it.

@Catholicizm1 Reading Pius XII's liturgical reforms is enough to make you think that the see has been vacant since the 1930s. It's just so much Bugnini.

@BishopBarron Well maybe if the false ecumenism hadn’t been thrust on the church 60 years ago and drunk like Kool Aid by the modernist clergy, we wouldn’t be having this issue. Amazing how Lefebvre keeps being proven right over and over.

El cisma existe, sin duda. Pero no está donde algunos creen verlo. 🔗fsspx.news/es/news/donde-…

@fr_geckle @fiscal_respons @pluant I would expect a self important modernist to do that. All the modernists liturgists seem self important: "The Roman Rite is corrupted, I must fix it!"

@kingruggles @fiscal_respons @pluant Yes, Bugnini claimed it much later, but he was trying to make himself look important. It's a verifiable lie. I'm sure you would agree with me - the records and the word of the solid liturgists of the time is more valuable than the bragging of a modernist.

Contemporary sedevacantism is in part the result of the rise of the Pius XII papal personality cult of an ascetic who looked the papal part. The fact that he wasn’t very traditional about, say, liturgy is irrelevant. He looked the part, and he ruled by fiat.

@fr_geckle @fiscal_respons @pluant I guess, but that would be contrary to Bugnini's own claims on the subject. However, there were still liturgical modernists who had lots of influence i.e. Josef Jungmann and Louis Bouyer.

That's actually verifiably not true. Bugnini had almost nothing to do with it. I think the most he did was translate something if I remember correctly. The actual records show this. He was basically a nobody compared to the other liturgists at the time. I've not read those records myself, but I know a few priests who are the research types that have done so. This is one of those false allegations used to justify undermining the liturgical changes of Pope Pius XII. Modernists after his pontificate created a bunch of garbage. Doesn't mean that he was influenced by them or that we can reject his changes to the liturgy

@pluant If Mediator Dei isn't traditional I'll eat my shoe. The fact is that it was easy to get things confused. It was easy for him to praise the liturgical movement, which was once good, and get tricked by modernist supposed experts on implementation, Pius XII did not focus on liturgy.

@fiscal_respons @pluant It was mostly the work of Bugnini has the "experts" of the liturgical movement, which he stamped the approval of because he knew about and promoted the liturgical movement because of its previous good fruit before it got infiltrated. He supposed that the experts were good.

@kingruggles @pluant Dude he gave us the first half dozen steps toward the Novus Ordo in the Holy Week reforms. The 51/55 Easter Vigil was so discordant that the 1969 Missal actually restored some of the prophesies that were excised from the 51/55 Vigil.

@pgoings @pluant Pope St. Pius X did not destroy the psalter, he cleaned it up, as had been done many times before in history. Many supposed traditionalists forget that change isn't always bad, but that proper liturgical changes are good. The Novus Ordo is bad because it departs from Catholicism.

@pluant This is all a very modern phenomenon. You couldn't imagine the pearl-clutching that I encounter when I mention that Pope S. Pius X destroyed the Roman Psalter. The cult of Francis wasn't really different from the cult of Pius XII.

@poperespecter1 This image is more unclear and lacks a header unlike LifeSite's image, which clearly makes it less credible. If you're just on X to make us think that you're retarded, please leave and pursue better ends. You haven't presented one convincing or even interesting argument.

Breaking: Unearthed photo from 1995 appears to show entire Life Site News editorial board worshipping pachamama!

@BigModernism Would this guy walk past a mosque, figure it's local custom and walk in a prostrate before Allah? Walk past a gathering of "witches" and go chant with them? Sometimes things are obvious, especially for priests.

Skojec: “La da da. I’m a priest. What are we doing today? Oh what is this? A gathering. I’ll check it out. Hmm they are holding up what appears to be a pagan idol. Now they are all chanting to it. Oops, now they are all kneeling to it. Guess I’ll kneel. Oh look at that, they are all prostrating themselves to it! I guess I’ll prostrate myself to the demon goddess. Well, looks like they are done! Time for lunch! No idea what I just participated in! Hope it was holy. Maybe I’ll be pope someday!”

@StMichael71 "Contemporary Catholic Integralism" is opposed to liberalism and the "American constitutional tradition" because those errors assert authority above God. Separation of Church and state is nonsense, the state must be Catholic and subject to the authority of the Church duly.

Contemporary Catholic integralism is a fundamentally authoritarian movement, opposed to the American constitutional tradition and its notion of ordered liberty. (Catholicism itself not being so opposed). Mirror images of integralism in Protestant clothing are equally un-American

Think what you will about Opus Dei, they are being scapegoated for their doctrinal conservatism. Even a conservative interpretation of the Council and saying a reverent Novus Ordo Mass is no longer safe. The synodal church has replaced the conciliar church. Remnants of the conservative conciliar church are now the enemy also. The Revolution eats its own.

@nassaujuan @williamofdallas I got my knowledge on this from Q40 Article 5 of the Summa. It's quite strange that Paul VI decided to abolish the subdiaconate, as Thomists have always held it to be set apart from the minor orders by having a role directly involved with the Blessed Sacrament.

@williamofdallas @kingruggles The pontifical of Guillaume Durand (standard pontifical of the late medieval roman curia) agrees with @kingruggles that the episcopate is not to be understood as an “order” but as the summit of the priesthood:

Where is the Subdeacon

@williamofdallas The Trent you quoted was talking about the order of the hierarchy, not the sacrament of orders.

@williamofdallas The sacrament of orders comprises the 7 Orders up to the priesthood, episcopal consecration isn't a sacrament.

@JoshuaTCharles @williamofdallas correction: and says that the subdiaconate ...

@JoshuaTCharles @williamofdallas Yes it is. St. Thomas actually denies that Episcopal Consecration is an Order, and that the subdiaconate, diaconate, and priesthood, the sacred orders, together with the 4 minor Orders are the seven Orders, which are graded by their relation to the Blessed Sacrament.