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A few thoughts on spot sprays, inspired by three days at #Agritechnica #Agritechnica2023
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Tom Wolf
13.1K posts
Tom Wolf
@nozzle_guy
Tom specializes in spray technology research & helps applicators meet their goals across Canada. U of Manitoba, Ohio State. #sprayers101 #SpotSpray 🇨🇦 🇩🇪
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Katılım Mayıs 2012
2.8K Takip Edilen13K Takipçiler
@bdcryce12 @LowBoomLowDrift @breannetidemann @Plantmore1 @charlesmgeddes The interesting thing about mutations is that they are not caused by selection pressure. They are random, & most of them are unsuccessful, i.e., the organism dies. Successful mutations are very rare. That's one reason why evolution takes a long time.
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@LowBoomLowDrift @breannetidemann @Plantmore1 @nozzle_guy @charlesmgeddes Errors are just natural errors that occur when plant cells dna replicates and randomly there are errors in the copy no different than any other living organism. Things such as radiation just increase the rate at which the errors in transcription occur.
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New 160 foot delivery at Milden Sask. Nozzle testing 60 psi with 30-40 kmh wind.
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Tom Wolf retweetledi
@Plantmore1 @nozzle_guy @LowBoomLowDrift @charlesmgeddes So IMO Tom is correct that when talking about mutations sublethal doses is less of a concern. However, there is growing concern about sub lethal doses increasing development of metabolic resistance. The other issue for me with sublethal doses is it means the plant doesnt die…
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@AllamFarmer @LowBoomLowDrift For me, a low boom is 25". Any sprayer worth the money should be able to keep that height over a field plus minus 10" at ends. I know I'm dreaming. And I know the Horsch units can do better than most.
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@LowBoomLowDrift @Plantmore1 @charlesmgeddes But better check with @charlesmgeddes or @breannetidemann for the real story.
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@LowBoomLowDrift @Plantmore1 @charlesmgeddes 100% misconception. It is the use of herbicides per se that is responsible for resistance, not poor application. The idea may come from insecticides, where sublethal application allows stronger survivors to mate, sharing genetic material and increasing the offspring's tolerance.
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@Plantmore1 @LowBoomLowDrift @charlesmgeddes ...of resistance, polygenic, that is the accum. of small tolerance over time. This occurs primarily in dioecious species (Palmer, Waterhemp), but also epigynous species like kochia. Better applic. can prevent this. But that is not why kocia is resistant to Grp 2, 4, 5, 9, 14.
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@Plantmore1 @LowBoomLowDrift @charlesmgeddes Short answer is no. Site of action mutations confer very high levels of resistance, and they are amplified by selection pressure from herbicide application. The better the application, the stronger the pressure because this resistance is about 10 x. But there is another type ...
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@JimPrat97487282 @LowBoomLowDrift For me the big wakeup was spring of '81 in RRV. Forced into fallow in the drought of '80, we saw spring wind erosion that filled the ditches on those pieces. Psychological nightmare. With just 5" of black stuff, we vowed never again.
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@nozzle_guy @LowBoomLowDrift I agree. The only alternative to herbicide is tillage at this point and it's not a good alternative. I remember days like Thursday and today when the whole country was half and half. No till has certainly improved soil health and productivity. Let's hope for some new chemistry
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@rvavs11 Every year that you can avoid a herbicide application on a field buys you time before resistance becomes problematic. In Australia, it got so bad that some resorted to deep plowing, inverting the seed-layer and starting over. Considering what happened this week, not that inviting
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Mike, I know I'm being pretty hard on you for this. But it's wrong to think that using finer sprays will solve weed control problems. That approach instead creates more serious issues that affect agriculture as a whole.
Mike Wasylyniuk@LowBoomLowDrift
Ya. I was always of the same thinking before 10 inch spacing and reduced boom heights. Then I started to notice over the years the kochia on headlands. Everyone reducing pressure to reduce drift with course droplets on headlands. Then baby kochia survives. How can you control drift with course droplets but also control baby kochia with the fine hairs that need fine droplets without using a residual ? Ask this question often and no one has a great answer. Would you rather have drift control or perfect coverage ? It’s always a mix of both. Never perfect on either.
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@JimPrat97487282 @LowBoomLowDrift I agree with you. All it takes is for one single weed to no longer respond to the herbicides available in your cropping system for you to need to use a non-herbicidal control. And what will that action be? Answering that is where my investment would go right now.
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@nozzle_guy @LowBoomLowDrift I have said for the last 6 or 7 years herbicide resistance will be the biggest challenge facing farmers worldwide. It certainly isn't something we take lightly on our farm.
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@JimPrat97487282 @LowBoomLowDrift I have not, but people are worried about that and looking for it. Herbicide resistance is documented on the weedscience.org database but the site is down, so I couldn't check.
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@nozzle_guy @LowBoomLowDrift In our area assume all wild mustard is group 2 resistant. Assume all kochia is round up resistant. I have heard of kochia resistant to liberty in the United States. You heard anything about that?
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@LowBoomLowDrift @charlesmgeddes Glyphosate resistant kochia came first. Plant mutations that confer enzyme-level resistance (amino-acid substitutions) are rare & are not noticed until prolonged selection pressure. In France, they discovered blackgrass seed over 100 y old that was resistant to Group 1 chemistry.
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@nozzle_guy @charlesmgeddes I like this convo. You always make me think and I appreciate that. So what came first. Glyphosate or glyphosate resistant kochia ?
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@JimPrat97487282 @LowBoomLowDrift Yes, that can definitely be your opinion. But it's still wrong. It was actually where high rates of glyphosate and high rates of Group 2 products were used that resistance first showed up.
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@LowBoomLowDrift @nozzle_guy IMO reducing herbicide rates below label recommendations are the #1 cause of resistance
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@nozzle_guy Haha I am happy to get you back on here. We all missed you. The tweet did exactly what I wanted…
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@LowBoomLowDrift Yes. But you're promoting spraying in high winds with fine sprays in a pinned tweet.
So congratulations, you got me back on twitter! 🤣
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@nozzle_guy I think we should do whatever we can to control kochia. Herbicide being just one of the tools.
Optimizing the sprayer to target baby kochia while also reducing drift sounds like a good plan no?
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@LowBoomLowDrift Or prevent it. It is delayed by not spraying herbicides as often. In a herbicide based system, it cannot be prevented if the genetic variant is already part of the population. And that's been the story for the most part. Best to ask @charlesmgeddes .
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@LowBoomLowDrift ...that is >5 x more tolerant. That is caused by repeated use of high rates. Only the genetic variant survives and reproduces. No amount of tweaking droplet size, adjuvant, staging can undo this.
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