Orsan

My canon-accurate full Pokémon cladogram is complete!

@AquaPani oh yeah basis on irl invasive species makes sense. i misinterpreted the initial proposition lol

@orsan1070 similar to how Lurantis has Contrary in large part due to being based on an Orchid Mantis - stuff like Dragalge may not be invasive in-universe, but its design pulls from specific invasive kelp species (which its mega doubles down upon)

It's always "you're autistic" and never "thank you for telling me your theory about how pretty much every pokémon with Adaptability is an invasive species and how Mega Lucario specifically breaks this for some reason"

@AquaPani However, Basculegion has been present in Hisui for thousands of years at *least*, judging by the ancient hero's statues, and I'd wager probably even longer. Blue and Red Basculin invade places, sure, but White?

@orsan1070 Not necessarily - Basculin itself is invasive in-universe and irl there are many invasive species of salmon and bass

@FabrizioART I'm not quite sure I understand why Exeggcute and Paras are as high up as they are-- seeds/coconuts to a palm and a crab with mushrooms to crab with one mushroom aren't as drastic as you listed

Current version Tier list of Pokémon (that İ can tell with some confidence) that change clade when evolving or changing forms.

@NuclearPZN @_claypot I do think movesets *should* fit a Pokemon's lore and biology but that obviously shouldn't supersede balance and making a Pokemon fun (imo the best movesets do both)

@_claypot Literally arguing with someone who thinks that this moveset is okay because it makes sense "biologically". Rubbish.

i hope whoever designed lotad/lombre's learnset in gen 3 is having a bad day today

@N0UVEAUCAFE @melofloetta Their designs are seemingly based on Ethan and Lyra so I'd guess Japanese? (Johtonian, like Corbeau)

@melofloetta oh theyre not french at all i think theyre racially ambiguous foreigners LOL

im not 100% committed to it so dont take it seriously

@AshStash__ At least it has biology and is tied into several things across the series in ORAS (Sinnoh's fog route). It's way better than Zarude and Marshadow

- has 0 presense in X/Y - only got distributed in ORAS - shiny only released in tcg - finally catchable in ZA, still locked, no new info on it, battle arena is a black box - shinys obtainable, locked behind the most frustrating pokedex to complete they hate this fucking pokemon

@nidohime @TrickRubyVGC The Pokedex literally doesn't lie everything in there is stuff people in universe think is true

@TrickRubyVGC It doesn't need it. A lot of times the Pokedex lies.

Something that just sorta occurred to me. The Lumiose Pokedex is the only dex to have Kantonian Slowpoke but no Shellder. I know Slowpoke evolves at level 37, but canonically a Shellder is still required for the process. How the heck do Slowpoke in Lumiose City evolve?!?!

@Monster77571319 @Gagaegral I guess, but when a creature has few actual reptilian features and instead features mostly associated with mammals (fur, fur-scales) I feel like it being not a reptile should at least be on the table It's not like we don't have other mammalian Dragon Pokemon, Noivern exists

@orsan1070 @Gagaegral And armadillos have boney scutes (which reptiles also have) But with Keretin on them (which nails and fingernails and horns and hair are made out of) So I guess theoretically would be possible for a reptile to have hair scales 😜.

I haven’t played the SV DLCs, because I recently found out that Kommo-o's textures in SV aren’t scales, are more like feathers, which makes sense given its feathered necklace. This could confirm that isn’t necessarily a dromaeosaur, but at least a theropod.

@WrathOfBuddha @Gagaegral I see where you're coming from and I def get it, this series plays fast and loose with design elements sometimes However there's also a recurring pattern of Pokemon based on related species irl being said to be related in dex entries so real world categories are reflected somehow

@orsan1070 @Gagaegral Does it even make sense to use categories like mammal and reptile to describe Pokémon? The Bulbasaur-line are supposedly based on frogs, but their designs look very reptilian with some weirdly mammalian features like the ears thrown in there.

@Monster77571319 @Gagaegral Not sure what you mean here. Kommo-o's scales came from its fur according to the Pokedex, and nothing ever says its feathered, just furred

@orsan1070 @Gagaegral Wouldn't they technically be feathers though given fur comes from a different thing While feathers actually come from scales.

@Monster77571319 @Gagaegral Fur-like feathers are notably not fur which the Pokedex directly says Kommo-o has. Scales made from the same material as fur are also a very real thing-- eg armadillos and pangolins

@orsan1070 @Gagaegral Fur like feathers are a very real thing.

@JohnGrapeMarine @Gagaegral @Mdamm28 @AquaPani It's never stated that specifically *Kyurem* caused the crater though. the Lacunosa story avoids naming the Pokemon, just saying it "appeared in the village at night, with a freezing wind, and it stole away people and Pokémon..."

@orsan1070 @Gagaegral @Mdamm28 @AquaPani I think the idea is that it's stated that specifically Kyurem was the one that caused the crater, and not the as of now unknown Pokèmon that was all three as one. It being already split implies that it was already here, and that the war between the brothers was happening/happened

@FalcoSean @Gagaegral that's fair! personally i think similarities like that are worth noting and using but i definitely see your arguments. the dicynodont argument is compelling but too weak for me personally

@orsan1070 @Gagaegral Yeah, but that body type comes with the territory of BEING based on Kaiju, so I generally don't use that as an indicator of whether a Pokémon is a dinosaur pokemon proper. For me, The Haxorus line just look WAY more like Dicynodonts than ANY dinosaur....

@no1gladionfan This is only sorta related to the post but I recommend abcboy101.github.io/poke-corpus/ for finding specific quotes in lieu of Bulbapedia, for modern games you can even click on a character's dialogue tag from one line and see all their dialogue

question i know it’s a lot of work to fill out the dialogue pages for different characters so obviously im not complaining it’s a huge project, but im curious, is there a reason why nobody seems to be working on bulbapedia quotes pages for any of the ZA characters?

@FalcoSean @Gagaegral worth noting here that there's a bunch of ambiguously dinosaur/kaiju-like pokemon that all share biological similarities with each other and with haxorus (eating earth to strengthen their metallic/stone armor is the biggest thing, with Tyranitar, Haxorus, Duraludon, and Aggron)

@orsan1070 @Gagaegral Yeah based on that and a general perspective, ya gotta take the layman's perspective on what a dinosaur is in mind, especially when the official wording doesn't narrow things down at all

@Gagaegral @Mdamm28 @AquaPani like genuinely i do not understand your thinking here (i want to, though!) there's a pretty blatant implication that i'm not sure why you're discarding

@Gagaegral @Mdamm28 @AquaPani Metagross is never explicitly mentioned to come from space and yet that's implied. Same goes for Starmie (pre-ZA) and debatably even for Beheeyem Other Pokemon being explicitly stated to come from space does not suddenly make all implications of the same impossible

@FalcoSean @Gagaegral thats an interesting point! personally its not strong enough to sway me (the only times dinosaur is used in pokemon are for... not dinos but dino relatives in aerodactyl and arcto- [and brute bonnet but that's a different case]) but i definitely see where you're coming from

@orsan1070 @Gagaegral Huh, that's interesting... but to be fair, the REALLY vague wording of "Dinosaur-like," strikes me as it being entirely possible Sugimori could have thought Dictnodonts are dinosaurs, since MOST people don't know what stem-mammals are and mistake them for dinosaurs anyway

@Mdamm28 @Gagaegral @AquaPani do we know that? kyurem's Ice overtakes reshiram's Fire and zekrom's Electric when fused, so the description of the monster matches both what we can surmise of the OG and of kyurem

@orsan1070 @Gagaegral @AquaPani yeah the big scary pokemon was kyurem not the original dragon