Shaco

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Shaco

Shaco

@realshaco

Be the good in the world @hilomarket

Katılım Şubat 2015
192 Takip Edilen5.7K Takipçiler
Shaco
Shaco@realshaco·
Well, you can start with that out of around 2000 active users, no one has lost their funds or life savings voting on markets. On most other prediction markets, around 90% of users end up losing money. Second, there are about 100x more markets, across much broader categories and questions, not just obvious events like on other platforms. It is risk free and ethical, without extracting money from users, and users can be rewarded over time. In the end, it is better to use an app in a relaxed way every day than to stress about losing your rent money like on gambling platforms.
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Timii 🩶
Timii 🩶@0x_Timi·
@jmkd888 @Hilomarket maybe you don’t understand - but for a project that claims to want to change perspective on truth voting, they should be showing what that truth has impacted. you created events, okay cool. what did that solve? you were simply there racking up and farming points. so?
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Hilomarket
Hilomarket@Hilomarket·
So far, 3,503 prediction questions have been created across events and opinions, with 325,576 votes cast, showing the true potential of riskless prediction. Sign up and start earning. It’s free.
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Hilomarket
Hilomarket@Hilomarket·
Hilo App is Live! The first prediction app with zero risk. Sign up, start voting, and earn now!
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Shaco
Shaco@realshaco·
@VitalikButerin Vitalik, we’ve solved exactly that and we’re launching next week. check hilomarket
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vitalik.eth
vitalik.eth@VitalikButerin·
Recently I have been starting to worry about the state of prediction markets, in their current form. They have achieved a certain level of success: market volume is high enough to make meaningful bets and have a full-time job as a trader, and they often prove useful as a supplement to other forms of news media. But also, they seem to be over-converging to an unhealthy product market fit: embracing short-term cryptocurrency price bets, sports betting, and other similar things that have dopamine value but not any kind of long-term fulfillment or societal information value. My guess is that teams feel motivated to capitulate to these things because they bring in large revenue during a bear market where people are desperate - an understandable motive, but one that leads to corposlop. I have been thinking about how we can help get prediction markets out of this rut. My current view is that we should try harder to push them into a totally different use case: hedging, in a very generalized sense (TLDR: we're gonna replace fiat currency) Prediction markets have two types of actors: (i) "smart traders" who provide information to the market, and earn money, and necessarily (ii) some kind of actor who loses money. But who would be willing to lose money and keep coming back? There are basically three answers to this question: 1. "Naive traders": people with dumb opinions who bet on totally wrong things 2. "Info buyers": people who set up money-losing automated market makers, to motivate people to trade on markets to help the info buyer learn information they do not know. 3. "Hedgers": people who are -EV in a linear sense, but who use the market as insurance, reducing their risk. (1) is where we are today. IMO there is nothing fundamentally morally wrong with taking money from people with dumb opinions. But there still is something fundamentally "cursed" about relying on this too much. It gives the platform the incentive to seek out traders with dumb opinions, and create a public brand and community that encourages dumb opinions to get more people to come in. This is the slide to corposlop. (2) has always been the idealistic hope of people like Robin Hanson. However, info buying has a public goods problem: you pay for the info, but everyone in the world gets it, including those who don't pay. There are limited cases where it makes sense for one org to pay (esp. decision markets), but even there, it seems likely that the market volumes achieved with that strategy will not be too high. This gets us to (3). Suppose that you have shares in a biotech company. It's public knowledge that the Purple Party is better for biotech than the Yellow Party. So if you buy a prediction market share betting that the Yellow Party will win the next election, on average, you are reducing your risk. Mathematical example: suppose that if Purple wins, the share price will be a dice roll between [80...120], and if Yellow wins, it's between [60...100]. If you make a size $10 bet that Yellow will win, your earnings become equivalent to a dice roll between [70...110] in both cases. Taking a logarithmic model of utility, this risk reduction is worth $0.58. Now, let's get to a more fascinating example. What do people who want stablecoins ultimately want? They want price stability. They have some future expenses in mind, and they want a guarantee that will be able to pay those expenses. But if crypto grows on top of USD-backed stablecoins, crypto is ultimately not truly decentralized. Furthermore, different people have different types of expenses. There has been lots of thinking about making an "ideal stablecoin" that is based on some decentralized global price index, but what if the real solution is to go a step further, and get rid of the concept of currency altogether? Here's the idea. You have price indices on all major categories of goods and services that people buy (treating physical goods/services in different regions as different categories), and prediction markets on each category. Each user (individual or business) has a local LLM that understands that user's expenses, and offers the user a personalized basket of prediction market shares, representing "N days of that user's expected future expenses". Now, we do not need fiat currency at all! People can hold stocks, ETH, or whatever else to grow wealth, and personalized prediction market shares when they want stability. Both of these examples require prediction markets denominated in an asset people want to hold, whether interest-bearing fiat, wrapped stocks, or ETH. Non-interest-bearing fiat has too-high opportunity cost, that overwhelms the hedging value. But if we can make it work, it's much more sustainable than the status quo, because both sides of the equation are likely to be long-term happy with the product that they are buying, and very large volumes of sophisticated capital will be willing to participate. Build the next generation of finance, not corposlop.
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Shaco
Shaco@realshaco·
.@VitalikButerin is slowly going through the thought process we went through to build Hilo. Would be nice if he could see @hilomarket but there’s too much noise in this space. Anyway we’re going live next week. Stay tuned, we passed 5,000 users on the waiting list in a few days.
vitalik.eth@VitalikButerin

Recently I have been starting to worry about the state of prediction markets, in their current form. They have achieved a certain level of success: market volume is high enough to make meaningful bets and have a full-time job as a trader, and they often prove useful as a supplement to other forms of news media. But also, they seem to be over-converging to an unhealthy product market fit: embracing short-term cryptocurrency price bets, sports betting, and other similar things that have dopamine value but not any kind of long-term fulfillment or societal information value. My guess is that teams feel motivated to capitulate to these things because they bring in large revenue during a bear market where people are desperate - an understandable motive, but one that leads to corposlop. I have been thinking about how we can help get prediction markets out of this rut. My current view is that we should try harder to push them into a totally different use case: hedging, in a very generalized sense (TLDR: we're gonna replace fiat currency) Prediction markets have two types of actors: (i) "smart traders" who provide information to the market, and earn money, and necessarily (ii) some kind of actor who loses money. But who would be willing to lose money and keep coming back? There are basically three answers to this question: 1. "Naive traders": people with dumb opinions who bet on totally wrong things 2. "Info buyers": people who set up money-losing automated market makers, to motivate people to trade on markets to help the info buyer learn information they do not know. 3. "Hedgers": people who are -EV in a linear sense, but who use the market as insurance, reducing their risk. (1) is where we are today. IMO there is nothing fundamentally morally wrong with taking money from people with dumb opinions. But there still is something fundamentally "cursed" about relying on this too much. It gives the platform the incentive to seek out traders with dumb opinions, and create a public brand and community that encourages dumb opinions to get more people to come in. This is the slide to corposlop. (2) has always been the idealistic hope of people like Robin Hanson. However, info buying has a public goods problem: you pay for the info, but everyone in the world gets it, including those who don't pay. There are limited cases where it makes sense for one org to pay (esp. decision markets), but even there, it seems likely that the market volumes achieved with that strategy will not be too high. This gets us to (3). Suppose that you have shares in a biotech company. It's public knowledge that the Purple Party is better for biotech than the Yellow Party. So if you buy a prediction market share betting that the Yellow Party will win the next election, on average, you are reducing your risk. Mathematical example: suppose that if Purple wins, the share price will be a dice roll between [80...120], and if Yellow wins, it's between [60...100]. If you make a size $5 bet that Yellow will win, your earnings become equivalent to a dice roll between [70...110] in both cases. Taking a logarithmic model of utility, this risk reduction is worth $0.58. Now, let's get to a more fascinating example. What do people who want stablecoins ultimately want? They want price stability. They have some future expenses in mind, and they want a guarantee that will be able to pay those expenses. But if crypto grows on top of USD-backed stablecoins, crypto is ultimately not truly decentralized. Furthermore, different people have different types of expenses. There has been lots of thinking about making an "ideal stablecoin" that is based on some decentralized global price index, but what if the real solution is to go a step further, and get rid of the concept of currency altogether? Here's the idea. You have price indices on all major categories of goods and services that people buy (treating physical goods/services in different regions as different categories), and prediction markets on each category. Each user (individual or business) has a local LLM that understands that user's expenses, and offers the user a personalized basket of prediction market shares, representing "N days of that user's expected future expenses". Now, we do not need fiat currency at all! People can hold stocks, ETH, or whatever else to grow wealth, and personalized prediction market shares when they want stability. Both of these examples require prediction markets denominated in an asset people want to hold, whether interest-bearing fiat, wrapped stocks, or ETH. Non-interest-bearing fiat has too-high opportunity cost, that overwhelms the hedging value. But if we can make it work, it's much more sustainable than the status quo, because both sides of the equation are likely to be long-term happy with the product that they are buying, and very large volumes of sophisticated capital will be willing to participate. Build the next generation of finance, not corposlop.

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good
good@thenarrator·
very bullish on the new thesis around @Hilomarket and what @realshaco is building: prediction markets have a gambling problem and everyone knows it the original thesis was "markets aggregate information better than experts" and what we got was "sportsbook with crypto rails" for the most part. the issue: when you make people risk money to express beliefs, you get asymmetric bets and entertainment seeking, not truth @Hilomarket is trying something different and moving away from their previous model: >no liquidity pools >no money at risk > just pure signal you contribute predictions, the system weights you based on accuracy over time and being wrong isn't punished if it's informative this is actually closer to what prediction markets were supposed to be the real question: can you build a prediction market without financial incentives that people actually use?
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Shaco
Shaco@realshaco·
@CryptoKleij @thenarrator Feel free to read my latest article, its discussing this topic and what we’re building. And of course, let me know if you have any questions. Cheers.
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Mau.mega
Mau.mega@CryptoKleij·
@thenarrator how would one reduce the gamblification in pred markets but still guarantee the truth behind said prediction? I’m curious.
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good
good@thenarrator·
we’re moving past gamifying everything and into structured products, hedging, and safer primitives. the kind of stuff your grandma could actually use without fear of getting wiped. that shift is bigger than it looks.
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Hilomarket
Hilomarket@Hilomarket·
Traditional prediction markets struggle to support even 50 active markets without liquidity issues. Hilo is designed to handle 1M+ markets daily. That’s the difference between liquidity-limited systems and real data scalability. Installable web app on all devices. No country restrictions. Stay tuned.
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Hilomarket
Hilomarket@Hilomarket·
The Hilo Thesis is now live! You can find it in our Docs, along with updates to the Help Center to help you prepare for the platform. Feel free to share your suggestions and ask questions in our Telegram or below.
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Hilomarket
Hilomarket@Hilomarket·
On Hilo App, quality earns , every minute, risk-free. Stay tuned.
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Hilomarket
Hilomarket@Hilomarket·
We’ve been quietly building something to fix what’s broken in prediction markets. Almost ready. Stay tuned.
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Shaco
Shaco@realshaco·
Hilomarket's next update addresses many of the core issues facing today’s prediction markets, including critical scalability challenges. We’re shipping a fully updated, functional platform with a target release within the next two weeks. @Hilomarket
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Shaco
Shaco@realshaco·
Predicting the future shouldn’t be built on gambling mechanics and this is something we’ve been quietly building toward, more soon
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HomeLander.sol
HomeLander.sol@Homelander0X·
@cryptolimbo Some of my friends who got allo in limitless Dumped their holding after the FUD and looking for more prediction market gems... I think we might see some rotation from many participants to solid beta plays
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Limbo
Limbo@cryptolimbo·
Team shipping relentlessly! Prediction Market Narrative with 2.5M Mcap! $HILO iykyk
Shaco@realshaco

We’re getting very close to making @Hilomarket the most complete prediction market platform, packed with features, accessibility, and endless possibilities. From predicting and earning to socializing, exploring gamified modes, accessing deep data and analytics, and using developer tools, users and builders will have everything in one place. Making sure you’ll have Hilomarket pinned on your browser.

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Shaco
Shaco@realshaco·
We’re getting very close to making @Hilomarket the most complete prediction market platform, packed with features, accessibility, and endless possibilities. From predicting and earning to socializing, exploring gamified modes, accessing deep data and analytics, and using developer tools, users and builders will have everything in one place. Making sure you’ll have Hilomarket pinned on your browser.
Hilomarket@Hilomarket

Pro-trading features are coming to Hilomarket, including order book, limit orders, cashout, and liquidity provision. We’re taking predictions to the next level.

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Cobie
Cobie@cobie·
but it is a good question. i thought maybe no guests but ledger has missed 3 yrs of crypto so nothing to talk about without guests lol * jeff + shoku * prediction mkts * light if he will do it again * maybe arthur hayes, never came on before * maybe some recent founders of ok stuff * errrrr who else fk
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Rhino
Rhino@lBattleRhino·
Up only back is dope but who will they have on, we don’t have anywhere near the level of interesting main characters that we did last cycle
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Hilomarket
Hilomarket@Hilomarket·
$200K total flow in just a few weeks of Early Access. We’re nearing that 1M 👀
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Hilomarket
Hilomarket@Hilomarket·
Time for a glow-up! Revealing our new logo. A sharper, bolder identity for Hilomarket, built to reflect movement, precision, and the spirit of user-driven prediction markets.
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