Sachin Bettadapur

74 posts

Sachin Bettadapur

Sachin Bettadapur

@sachinbett

Former IB/PE, current restoration business owner

Katılım Eylül 2024
102 Takip Edilen101 Takipçiler
One Man LBO
One Man LBO@OneManLBO·
My wife will never understand that the best way to start off a Saturday morning is a 6 AM straight up operator talk with @sachinbett that runs for 90 minutes Man is doing big things in restoration I come into the kitchen fist pumping at 140 mph and have to deal with mundane things like my kids’ breakfast At least let me spell EBITDUH with the alphabet cereal
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Sachin Bettadapur
Sachin Bettadapur@sachinbett·
Right, I’m not saying you take distributions Y1-Y5. I’m saying if you’re solving for IRR, you sell in year 5 instead of holding and taking $1mm distributions for another 5 I’m nitpicking but primarily to point out that you’re playing a different game if you raise $2mm to greenfield. It’s more like VC of the past (grow as fast as possible until you reach sufficient scale, then immediately sell) than small business holdco
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Dealflow Guy
Dealflow Guy@dealflow_guy·
@sachinbett The agrument is to get to $1M profit in 5 years (repeatedly) we’re going to need to reinvest in people, marketing, and process. But there are many ways to skin this cat.
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Dealflow Guy
Dealflow Guy@dealflow_guy·
This. Assume: 100% chance of success $2M in Y0 Y1-Y4 100% reinvested (no distributions) $1M distributions starting Y5 thru Y10 8X on that $1M @ Y10 This is ~25% IRR So good, but not great. And our assumptions aren’t guaranteed.
Johannes Hock@HockJohannes

The discourse on starting vs buying home services is missing the incredible shift the industry has undergone in the last 3 years and why they have genuinely increased in value (although current market multiples are still wild) 3 years ago, you could generate real lead flow with a good GMB, a decent website and some ad money. You could start with <$1mm and get to profitability quickly and then grow from there with cashflow. Today, that is almost impossible. Most of the lead flow is going to ads, so you have to pay for all your leads. So you need way more money to start (say $2-3mm). So there is more of a financial moat today, hence higher valuation for existing businesses. Taking a step back, I think it would be helpful for folks to assume the market is much more efficient than they think. 8-10x acquisition multiples are usually 5-7x for the buyer because they have purchasing synergies. The big roll ups aren't stupid and overpaying by 3x vs. market. Similarly, if these businesses get bought for 6-8x EBITDA, they have real value which means you can't just create them out of thin air easily. In turf, we see 30-50 new companies each year that just churn. We've started 7 new locations with the all the know how and capital from our existing locations and it's still hard. Obviously it can be done, but if it was easy, these businesses wouldn't trade where they do.

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Sachin Bettadapur
Sachin Bettadapur@sachinbett·
@OneManLBO @SMBDistribution Question that always comes to my mind is how much S&M $ would you need to throw at a greenfield to get it to (b), and how quickly could you do it? Quasi VC model. Easier said than done but interesting thought experiment. And to your point, I would bet potential for extreme IRR
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One Man LBO
One Man LBO@OneManLBO·
@SMBDistribution I think combination of (a) young hungry guys and (b) the ever-present strategic put option at 10X-15X makes good M&A basically impossible. But building from scratch is hard way to go. Still may have the best IRR if you can pull it off given (b)
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One Man LBO
One Man LBO@OneManLBO·
Pest control is all the rage, so before 20% of SMB Twitter jumps to greenfield in that space, let me bring the ultra bull case down a bit (to maybe moderate bull case) Great product because it can be proactively sold face to face to homeowner. It's an outbound numbers game. Which I like. That being said, knowing a few operators, customer acquisition definitely isn't easy: 1) Outsourced sales reps (door-to-door guns for hire) are expensive, usually generating first year losses. There's a whole industry around this in Utah 2) Building an outside sales team in-house is challenging. Expensive (need to coordinate housing for out-of-town kids), high attrition, grind of a job 3) Homeowners are skeptical, and you often need to convince them they have a problem without visible evidence of a problem. There's some measure of homeowner "buyer's remorse" that kicks in post-sale. 4) If you want to stay on the good side of the local law, apparently you need a peddler permit for certain municipalities and subdivisions, with some not even allowing door-to-door at all (didn't know this until recently) 5) Really hard to differentiate on service quality (but this applies to most of home services) 6) Ads are expensive, and customer LTV is lower than HVAC / plumbing (so CAC squeezes you more). Difficult to make digital work 7) Your competition is hungry young guys in their 20s and 30s (from my own direct anecdotal outreach experience, the average owner age is probably 1-2 decades younger than skilled trades) IMO, hard to scale up in a low-ticket service line like pest, but if you manage to do so, the market will force you into retirement with a money cannon, burying you in enough dollar bills to feed the next 3-4 generations of your family
Eli Albrecht@Eli_Albrecht

Lower Middle Market valuations are all over the place. Here are some valuations I have seen over the past month: 1. Residential Plumbing (1.8M EBITDA) - 4.1x 2. Residential/Commercial HVAC (2.1M EBITDA) - 10.5x 3. SAAS Company (1.2M Rev) - 5x Revenue 4. Pest Control ($2M EBITDA) - 16x 5. Home Service ($1.2M) - 7.1x 6. Building services ($900k EBITDA) - 3.7x

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Reza Jafer
Reza Jafer@rezajafer·
@GrantHensel If you have a single SPV for your LPs on the cap table, is the SBA looking through that to each LP?
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Grant Hensel (SMB Investor)
Grant Hensel (SMB Investor)@GrantHensel·
🚨 Did the SBA just slam the door on investor equity in self-funded search? They seem to be applying a “one strike and you’re out" rule to minority investors. WHAT HAPPENED: Historically, anyone who personally guaranteed an SBA loan and became delinquent or in default was barred from getting another SBA loan. This makes sense. But now, it seems like the SBA has expanded that rule to ALSO cover minority investors (who are not signing the personal guarantee and do not have any operational control). This is not a change the SBA has publicly announced. We found out about it the hard way on a recent deal when the SBA told the bank that 100% of beneficial owners cannot be people who participated in past SBA-backed deals that have gone into delinquency or default. We had to remove two small investors from our fund to get the deal done. This is apparently related to an ETRAN update, in which the system no longer distinguishes between the majority owner/operator/guarantor and minority investors when applying the eligibility rules. The rule appears to be: If you invest $1 into an SBA-backed acquisition, and that deal goes bad, you can never participate in an SBA transaction again. Ever. This is true even if you're an LP in a fund investing in SBA deals, and one of their SBA investments goes belly up. (Needless to say: Entrepreneurial Capital LPs, we are pausing SBA investments while we work to get more clarity here; fortunately our non-SBA pipeline is robust) WHAT IT MEANS IF THIS IS TRUE: Minority investing in SBA deals becomes much more difficult. The risk for an investor is dramatically higher than before. And even those investors willing to take the risk are apparently banned for life once a single deal goes bad. The SBA deals with the most outside equity are the larger transactions, businesses with $1m+ of EBITDA. If this is true, competition for those businesses will likely decrease, because SBA debt will effectively only be usable by people with enough money to do the entire equity injection themselves. That means a smaller buyer pool, and lower multiples. (Favoring well-capitalized buyers at the expense of those with less personal capital) MY QUESTION: Is this what others are seeing, or is there a bigger picture here?
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Sachin Bettadapur
Sachin Bettadapur@sachinbett·
@nerdcircus_ @BearlinCapital Also how many of them think about their own careers. Kick the can until you wake up one day as a principal with a kid + mortgage and accept your fate
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scrape 2026
scrape 2026@nerdcircus_·
@BearlinCapital also often applies in various capital raising / portco sale / competitive process situations
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scrape 2026
scrape 2026@nerdcircus_·
PE professionals often have a very particular thinking sequence where they're preserving optionality / flexibility until they actually need to make a final decision in practice, this can be surprisingly confusing, & even alarming, to others
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Moses Kagan
Moses Kagan@moseskagan·
Just attended an event for Nithya Raman (DSA member running for LA mayor). Found her talk & subsequent Q&A somewhat, but not entirely, frustrating. Do admire her for engaging in good faith. Sill trying to decide whether I prefer a potentially effective leftist to the current, ineffective one.
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Blueprintsmb
Blueprintsmb@blueprintsmb22·
A trend I’m seeing more of for SMB owners such as myself getting an opportunity to do small tuck ins => only offering commission deal structures. When myself or another SMB owner now looks at invoices of a potential target, we can tell immediately if the book of business is interesting. My offers are now commissions on business transferred to me - seeing other SMB owners do the same in other industries including home services. Paying anything upfront for these small deals rarely worth it. Can it pass the invoice test? I’ve seen big books of business where half is not profitable - only 3 years of pricing millions of dollars worth bags have allowed me to do this. x.com/Will_Schryver/…
Will Schryver@Will_Schryver

Do not buy a home services company at this price Seeing more of this broker slop every day This is why I'm focused on organic growth with new greenfield locations because I can't find anything worth acquiring at a reasonable price

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Sachin Bettadapur
Sachin Bettadapur@sachinbett·
@A_LastingLegacy How did he get comfortable with Safelite being the #1 service provider AND the only TPA? A lot to like about the industry, but seems like a tough growth dynamic to step into when the player with 40% (and growing) market share can effectively steer business to itself
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Nathan Lindley
Nathan Lindley@A_LastingLegacy·
Not EVERY business is a "Buy, dont Build" situation. sometimes youre better off building! One of my closest friends acquired an autoglass repair and replacement business. But, the day after he closed, he has to turn the ad spigot on in order to keep the phone ringing. There were no recurring customers calling him like they had every year for the last 10 years. He had some equipment. A few employees who knew their jobs. A google profile with somw reviews but they werent bestowing any obvious advantage to his CAC. He was eventually bought out and went to relaunch, but this time from scratch. Hw still has to put money into the Google machine and book appointments same as before, but this time, he has no debt service! If there isnt: IP Strong brand reputation Recurring book of business Book Value that exceeds the purchase price If you dont have at least one of these, I struggle to understand what you are buying and you should strongly consider saving yourself the hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars and start from scratch.
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Sachin Bettadapur
Sachin Bettadapur@sachinbett·
@Slackwatercap @IlltakeACookie @STLChrisH Limited new con, the bigger driver is lots of GP $ from retrofit vs. pure service/repair. Would think that dries up materially in a downturn, but seems like being in early days of a very big, very fragmented market (where the core service is non-discretionary) outweighs that risk
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Chris Hoffmann
Chris Hoffmann@STLChrisH·
My friend sold his garage door business for over $500 million in 2022. He was doing about $130m in revenue. Residential service and replacement, not new construction. The appeal of this industry over HVAC or plumbing? Homeowners actually WANT to replace their garage door…
Chris Hoffmann tweet media
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Sachin Bettadapur
Sachin Bettadapur@sachinbett·
@MikeBotkin_ May (knock on wood) have a multi-site restoration business in the Carolinas next month that would be very game
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Mike Botkin
Mike Botkin@MikeBotkin_·
Over the next few months, I’d like to spend 2-3 days (or less) at a company. Learn how others do it, see the real ‘ins and outs’. What works, what doesn’t. Be helpful if I can. Or I can sit there and shut up and watch. Random industries. But I do prefer southeast as I have made promise to wife that I would not travel this year unless it was for work directly. Anyone game or know anyone that would be?
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The Icahnist
The Icahnist@TheIcahnist·
@BigJohn043 @OrlandoBravoTB Cooked = the bloated, low-DPI layer being flushed out. The asset class isn’t dying. The mediocre middle is. Top-quartile managers adapt. The curve resets toward true operating excellence.
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John Caple
John Caple@BigJohn043·
FWIW, @OrlandoBravoTB doesn't say that "Private Equity is Cooked". And I don't believe it is. He does say that we are in the middle of a shakeout and I think that is very true. In PE 1.0 firms differentiated themselves by being great investors. They sourced interesting businesses with real upside. They then found a way to win the day in the sales process and get deals done. Early firms were generalist but over time the winners developed deep sector expertise to find the diamonds in the rough. Sellers also wanted to partner with people that really knew their business both because there was a better chance that the deal would get done and they would be better owners going forward. The truth is that this has become commoditized. The better firms have a very specific buy box that they execute on. The more specific the better. But that is no longer enough to drive the kinds of returns you need in PE. In PE 2.0, firms differentiate themselves by being better owners. They work with management to develop a focused strategy. And the best firms bring resources to the table to help their portcos execute. For anyone that thinks that all PE firms are the same, I will tell you that the way they execute their ownership models is all over the map. Some PE 1.0 firms have figured this out and have morphed their models. Some have not. And some have tried and failed. The ones that have not will not drive returns and are going to shake out. That is a good thing for the industry. Rothschild estimates that PE owns less than 5% of all middle market businesses. My view is that PE is a better ownership model than either private owners or going public. I see the asset class continuing to grow. And I think a good shakeout will help make that happen....
The Icahnist@TheIcahnist

PRIVATE EQUITY IS COOKED @OrlandoBravoTB just dropped the hammer: “We’re in the middle of the shakeout” The issue is underperformance & liquidity Notes from his latest interview ⬇️

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snow ❄️
snow ❄️@xbtsnow·
@sachinbett @HedgeDirty 300k at 24 is insane, is that with an MBA??? what type of finance jobs make this much? Investment banking?
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Sachin Bettadapur
Sachin Bettadapur@sachinbett·
@MikeBotkin_ @jjtejkl Underrated cash flow difference for a small business with SBA debt vs. a less small business with access to private credit markets: amortization. 10-year amort means roughly double the annual debt service vs. interest-only or 1% amort on the same quantum of debt
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Mike Botkin
Mike Botkin@MikeBotkin_·
One of the businesses I acquired during our landscaping rollup was from a guy who bought it using SBA, in two years he doubled his business from where he purchased it. The main reason we were able to acquire his business? He was beating his head against wall trying to figure out how to fund the growth he was achieving and kept having to stall wins because he couldn’t get access to liquidity, largely due to SBA. Major growth, while using SBA, is sometimes a negative….which goes against gut/intuition of ‘this is great, I am growing this, let’s go!’.
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Josh Tejkl
Josh Tejkl@jjtejkl·
A lot of people get on here and talk about all out growth, most don’t actually have the cash to do it.
Mike Botkin@MikeBotkin_

Something I have always discussed with people looking to use the SBA and buy a business…. ‘The SBA is not your partner, they are your lender. If your business is doing great they will say ‘awesome, pay me’. If your business is doing poor they will say ‘sucks to hear, pay me’. And all SBA lenders aren’t equal. Some banks suck. Some are great. Be careful. The only requirement to use the SBA is can you pass the process. There is no requirement of actually being able to operate, or how good the business is, or what does the real cash flow of the business look like, etc. [this is unfortunate] I’ve had a high number of people that bought businesses between 2022-2024 that are struggling and looking for liquidity options (i.e., they are struggling to meet cash demands and are looking to jump). All struggling for a variety of reasons. I’ve tried to step back and look at the commonalities of these businesses…. 1. SBA - and the MASSIVE bill each month 2. Lack of operational background in owner 3. Did not truly understand the unit economics of the business and it ‘REALLY’ makes money (I am sympathetic to this to a degree) 4. When the ship was leaking, the ‘answer’ to their problem was to hire….and hire….and hire…..and hire some more….and now they are in cash crunch hell. Just because the SBA green lights the deal, DOES NOT MEAN it is a good business. Do not use that as some confidence booster that creates irrational confidence. How do you avoid this stuff? I don’t know, honestly. Other than, the advice I give people when they reach out to me about buying a landscaping business is to go find 2-4 landscaping companies around and go work for them for 90 days each. You’ll learn more and understand if you want to PG your life to go buy one.

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Sachin Bettadapur
Sachin Bettadapur@sachinbett·
Agree with your take - similar to mine in fewer words. Only caveat is that I think his idea of the % of firms that are "totally hosed" is different from yours or mine. Outperformance in PE will require a different playbook going forward, but the main difference is that you actually have the control to enact that playbook and the universe of targets for which that's achievable is much bigger (especially in the LMM). Fundamentally different business model vs. public markets or VC which IMO will still mean fundamentally different distribution of returns
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Sachin Bettadapur
Sachin Bettadapur@sachinbett·
Yet another half-reasoned, error-littered Chamath hot take of the week What is true: 1) A significant portion of returns for the asset class as a whole over the last 10-15 years is attributable to multiple expansion unrelated to fundamentals that is simply not sustainable long-term 2) Proliferation of capital in the core middle market has driven entry prices for quality assets to pretty obscene levels. This is also generally true in the upper market with the number of traditionally middle market funds that moved up market and had to try to invent new playbooks with questionable success. I'm no public markets expert but I would also imagine the number of mispriced take-private targets is at a low 3) The lower middle market is more competitive than ever so entry prices are also higher than ever. But outside of the few hottest industries, LBO math still works at these levels, there is still a lot of asymmetric upside in this segment, and you will get paid by a bigger firm for doing the work to build a good platform 4) The global LP capital pool is unfathomably big and it's not going anywhere. Yes, the current cohort of GPs will shrink as there are funds that will no longer have a right to exist, especially if/when alt allocations drop. But there is simply too much money out there for the industry to shrink in any meaningful way - it will just get reallocated to different GPs and models (see: growth in the independent sponsor market) 5) The length of fund lives and overlapping cycles (i.e. you're generally raising the next fund 5+ years before the current one is fully realized) means any change will take a long time to materialize So PE is no longer in its golden age but it's not going anywhere. Sponsors that have an edge (true industry expertise or operational focus/capabilities) and/or participate in the right segments of the market will continue to see outsized demand. And even if returns compress on average, they will never "go to zero" and the distribution will never look like VC
The All-In Podcast@theallinpod

Chamath: “Private equity in general is totally hosed.” 🏢🚨 “I think the history of this is important.” “There was a long standing belief that the best way to generate the best risk adjusted return was to have what's called a 60/40 allocation. 60% to bonds and 40% to equities.” “Over many years, especially when we artificially suppressed rates at zero, a lot of people started to move their allocations away from 60/40 and they started to make more and more investments further out on the risk curve.” “The biggest beneficiaries of that were venture capital, private equity, and hedge funds.” “The thing with private equity is that because rates were zero, they had an infinite amount of borrowing capacity at very little downside to them, and so they were able to manufacture returns much faster than venture capital and hedge funds could.” “So as a result, you had an initial group of people that were defining the asset class, making a ton of money, and then you had all these fast followers that said, ‘Well, if they're doing it, I can do it too.’” “But then always what happens is then you have this flood of laggards that just flood the zone.” “And it's these laggards that make it very difficult to generate returns because they start overpaying for assets, they start mismanaging and under managing the assets that they do own.” “That created a lot of competition, and so that's why you see this hockey stick graph.” “And when you see that kind of graph, it doesn't matter what asset class it is. The returns go to zero.” “And so we've seen this in venture capital. We've seen this in hedge funds. And we're now going to see this in private equity.”

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Sachin Bettadapur
Sachin Bettadapur@sachinbett·
Sachin Bettadapur@sachinbett

Yet another half-reasoned, error-littered Chamath hot take of the week What is true: 1) A significant portion of returns for the asset class as a whole over the last 10-15 years is attributable to multiple expansion unrelated to fundamentals that is simply not sustainable long-term 2) Proliferation of capital in the core middle market has driven entry prices for quality assets to pretty obscene levels. This is also generally true in the upper market with the number of traditionally middle market funds that moved up market and had to try to invent new playbooks with questionable success. I'm no public markets expert but I would also imagine the number of mispriced take-private targets is at a low 3) The lower middle market is more competitive than ever so entry prices are also higher than ever. But outside of the few hottest industries, LBO math still works at these levels, there is still a lot of asymmetric upside in this segment, and you will get paid by a bigger firm for doing the work to build a good platform 4) The global LP capital pool is unfathomably big and it's not going anywhere. Yes, the current cohort of GPs will shrink as there are funds that will no longer have a right to exist, especially if/when alt allocations drop. But there is simply too much money out there for the industry to shrink in any meaningful way - it will just get reallocated to different GPs and models (see: growth in the independent sponsor market) 5) The length of fund lives and overlapping cycles (i.e. you're generally raising the next fund 5+ years before the current one is fully realized) means any change will take a long time to materialize So PE is no longer in its golden age but it's not going anywhere. Sponsors that have an edge (true industry expertise or operational focus/capabilities) and/or participate in the right segments of the market will continue to see outsized demand. And even if returns compress on average, they will never "go to zero" and the distribution will never look like VC

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John Caple
John Caple@BigJohn043·
The @theallinpod guys really understand tech & VC. But they have no real insight into things like private equity and monetary policy. Venture capital returns have always been challenging. More importantly, they have been highly concentrated in a hand full of Valley VC funds that have access to the best deals and have funded the home runs. As you have seen an explosion in both the number of VC funds and the assets under management, you have even more funds chasing the same set of deals. More money into the segment isn't creating more home runs so returns are very challenged. There are only a limited number of very good founders and ideas that can create the kind of returns required given the number of losers in VC. PE is just different. There are a huge number of businesses that are owned by other private owners. So if you believe that PE is just a better ownership model that can drive returns, there are a huge number of businesses that this can be done to. And increasingly companies aren't going public and the PE model makes more sense. PE returns are driven by better ownership and governance. Debt is just an example of better ownership. Public company management generally doesn't like debt because it makes their life harder and debt by definition holds them accountable. Similarly most public company boards feel the same way. So a reasonable level of debt would drive better returns for equity but they why do that? But debt is only one example. PE holds management teams accountable and drives real speed of execution. And FWIW, in 2024 buyout distribution where bigger than capital calls. So the industry is returning capital....
The All-In Podcast@theallinpod

Chamath: “Private equity in general is totally hosed.” 🏢🚨 “I think the history of this is important.” “There was a long standing belief that the best way to generate the best risk adjusted return was to have what's called a 60/40 allocation. 60% to bonds and 40% to equities.” “Over many years, especially when we artificially suppressed rates at zero, a lot of people started to move their allocations away from 60/40 and they started to make more and more investments further out on the risk curve.” “The biggest beneficiaries of that were venture capital, private equity, and hedge funds.” “The thing with private equity is that because rates were zero, they had an infinite amount of borrowing capacity at very little downside to them, and so they were able to manufacture returns much faster than venture capital and hedge funds could.” “So as a result, you had an initial group of people that were defining the asset class, making a ton of money, and then you had all these fast followers that said, ‘Well, if they're doing it, I can do it too.’” “But then always what happens is then you have this flood of laggards that just flood the zone.” “And it's these laggards that make it very difficult to generate returns because they start overpaying for assets, they start mismanaging and under managing the assets that they do own.” “That created a lot of competition, and so that's why you see this hockey stick graph.” “And when you see that kind of graph, it doesn't matter what asset class it is. The returns go to zero.” “And so we've seen this in venture capital. We've seen this in hedge funds. And we're now going to see this in private equity.”

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