Nathan Packard

@SalManila8 @stackerco @G_Freeman77 My take is that I'm asking questions and exploring possibilities regarding whether they would have been in the brass plates or not.

@searchWhileTrak @stackerco @G_Freeman77 So his soul delighteth in the words of Isaiah, especially the parts that wouldn’t have been in the brass plates? Fascinating take. 🧐

The part of the Book of Mormon that says it quotes Isaiah quotes Isaiah.

@stackerco @G_Freeman77 Do you believe specific predictive prophecy is possible?

@searchWhileTrak @G_Freeman77 The consensus is what it is. And the evidence for it, IMO, outweighs any of the arguments against it. 3 different periods of time, hundreds of years in between, changing prophecies and focus.

@PearlKevinPrice @stackerco @G_Freeman77 I understand the "vaticinium ex eventu" argument. Do you believe in specific predictive prophecy?

@searchWhileTrak @stackerco @G_Freeman77 All you have to do is write something down. Even after you destroy the only written copy, prophets can see visions through time and copy what you once wrote. That’s what Joseph Smith famously did.

@stackerco @G_Freeman77 Do you believe specific predictive prophecy is possible? The academic consensus on Deutero-Isaiah relies on a methodology that doesn't accept predictive prophecy as a historical explanation. Also, Isaiah shows deep structural unity across the whole book, per Avraham Giliadi.

@G_Freeman77 And quotes Isaiah that hadn’t been written until after Lehi left Jerusalem

@Santo_Andyroo Words are cheap. A Christian is one who does the will of the Father. And that's not easy.

I've noticed a phenomenon. I can't say if it's a relatively recent trend (as in it started with in the past 100 years or more recent), or a far older one. Although, considering the contention for the past millennia, it wouldn't surprise me if it's an older trend. I've been calling it "Schrödinger's Christians" since I didn't know what the name for the phenomenon was. Come to find out it's called intra-Christian exclusivism. It falls under the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. This refers to the belief held by some Christians that only their specific denomination, tradition, or group represents valid or true Christianity—rendering other Christian groups invalid, incomplete, or "not really Christian." It doesn't matter if someone is Catholic, Orthodox Christian, Protestant, Jehovah's Witness, or a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All and none are Christian depending on who you are talking to. I've included a few example screenshots below. As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it's an odd phenomenon to witness. We don't devote our time to denounce other Christian religions as "not Christian" in our congregations. This is not to state that we don't believe that God and Jesus Christ are the founders of our religion. But rather, it feels petty, childish, and like something Jesus Christ taught against. The way it's used as a cudgel against everyone has brought me to the point where I no longer take it seriously, and I've said as much recently.

@JoahFussell I like your priorities

@jmbrim3 @michcooley I love this. Our divisions should awaken us to the possibility that we have not yet understood nor fully believed His words. Christ prayed in John 17 that his followers would become one. If we have charity, we should "think no evil" about our brothers and sisters.

Been thinking a lot about these two verses. “No contention.” “Nor any manner of ites.” “One, the children of Christ.” Other identities don’t matter. Active member, exmo, republican, democrat, male, or female. We are all children of God. This is the only identity that matters.

@nicoraytruth @thethreefates2 I appreciate that, and agree. I love what you're doing! Christ's word is supposed to unite His believers. Yet, there's still so much division. Maybe it's because we aren't bold enough, we're too timid, like we don't really believe it. If we drink deeper maybe we will find unity

@searchWhileTrak @thethreefates2 We're on the same team and I agree with what you're saying. "learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you." I just like the based version better and it's what the world needs to hear. love you brother!

Based Mormonism vs Platitude Mormonism Based Mormonism: Your path leads to Godhood. Your intelligence is co-eternal with the Father, uncreated, without beginning. You stood in the council before the world was, and you chose this. The same gifts that followed the ancient Saints follow you: lay hands on the sick and they shall recover, prophesy, see visions, and speak in unknown languages. Every member may receive revelation direct from God, the heavens are not closed, they were never closed. Angels minister to those who have ears to hear. Walk the covenant path and you will be sealed to your spouse by the power that binds on earth and in heaven, and both of you will inherit worlds without end. Thrones, kingdoms, principalities, dominions — eternal increase, posterity as numberless as the sands. God is exalted of flesh and bone, enthroned in the heavens, and in glorified flesh you will become as He is and do what He does vs Platitude Mormonism: You can become like God through the plan of salvation. Each of us has a divine nature and eternal destiny. Through sacred covenants and the Atonement of Jesus Christ, families can be together forever. As we strive to be like our Heavenly Father, we grow in His attributes and draw nearer to Him. (We swear there is nothing here a Catholic or traditional Protestant would find objectionable)

@nicoraytruth @thethreefates2 😆 I love your enthusiasm, and appreciate your invitation to be more bold. Not only is the purpose to become more like him, it's to fulfill Christ's command to "be ye therefore perfect", divine, to be one with God as Christ is one with the Father, to learn to be gods:

@searchWhileTrak @thethreefates2 No, you chose mortality to able to become a literal god through exaltation. Stop watering it down for this guy. This isn't general conference.

@thethreefates2 @nicoraytruth Yeah that all sounds pretty speculative, I wouldn't give too much weight to that. We believe we are all children of God and that we lived with Him before we came to earth. We choose to enter mortality to grow, learn, and become more like Him through the way we use our agency.

@searchWhileTrak @nicoraytruth Only from what I've seen on X from LDS peeps. I've seen people talk about the Heavenly Father also had a father and there are other families that exist but their Heavenly Fathers are not our Heavenly Father. I don't know a ton about your theology. Just trying to understand.

@thethreefates2 @nicoraytruth No, that's not what I've been taught. Do you have sources that suggest that to be the case?

@searchWhileTrak @nicoraytruth But there are lots of other gods according to LDS, no? Those are not one with God the Father and Christ, they have their own lineage correct? Presumably they also live in the universe and could be interacted with?

@thethreefates2 @nicoraytruth

@nicoraytruth What is the definition of a god in LDS theology? From what I can tell, it seems akin to the Greek pantheon in mythology, but I’m assuming that is not correct.

@JasontheLayman @Primary_Pianist

That's confirmation on the many passages of Scripture found in the Old Testament that speak of grafting the Gentiles into the faith. So, both Jews and Gentiles will be accepted in Christ's church and become equal brethren. God is not a respecter of persons, but all are welcome to taste and see that the Lord is good. Contrarily, there are zero supportive Scripture verses that point to your fictional book of Mormon, but there's plenty of warnings for believers to flee from the wolves that lead people astray, like Joseph Smith and Muhammad.

I went to school with a kid who told tall tales. If you believed one of his stories, he would allow you to hear another. If you continued to play along, his fables became even more legendary. His name might as well have been Joseph Smith, because that's precisely what this LDS false prophet did when converting gullible followers into his cult. If you believed his Book of Mormon to be historically accurate, Joseph knew he could sell you even more oceanfront property in Arizona. I believe nobody on earth got away with telling more lies than this dangerous wolf and the proof is in how his faithful worshipers defend him so rigorously. I pray that changes soon, though.

@JasontheLayman @Primary_Pianist “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.” — John 10:16

Who cares? He lived in the nineteenth century and had a Bible like anyone else. Joseph Smith just did something very few men ever dared to do, create a completely fictional account about Jesus and label it the word of God. That's called blasphemy of the Holy Ghost and anyone who defends this heretical monstrosity is complicit in this unpardonable sin.

@jesse_k_fox The broader principle is to allocate time and effort to seek out God. What that looks like to different people could vary widely.

For those struggling with faith: At what point does “just keep going” stop building faith and start crushing the soul? And when the weight becomes too much, is stepping away weakness… or sometimes the beginning of healing?

@nicoraytruth @Manhattva The lady doth protest too much, methinks

@Manhattva why are so many ex-mormons that become anti-mormons cooked in the head?

I’ve had dinner with two of the people in this photograph. I don’t believe you could pay me enough money to have dinner with the third.

@Sarahsred7 @michcooley "And if we go to hell, we will turn the devils out of doors and make a heaven of it."

Someday we will all die and learn X is actually just Outer Darkness, I've joined now in hopes of bringing a tiny light to Outer Darkness. Let's get some pro Mormon content rolling folks

@nicoraytruth I like your zeal. Thanks for your posts

Do you understand now why the discourse terrifies the comfortable? A created soul can be content to be saved and set on a shelf. An eternal soul cannot. An eternal soul was made for motion, and was, in fact, never made at all

@TARSRel0aded I imagine it'll be pretty awkward in the life to come when you meet the prophets in the Book of Mormon whose testimonies you mocked.

My new favorite hotel quirk… I’m just doing my part!

@stackerco William James dn790003.ca.archive.org/0/items/pragma…

Best philosophy books I should read. Tell me.