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@seraphicsidr

أَفَلَا أَكُونُ عَبْدًا شَكُورًا

Katılım Temmuz 2018
722 Takip Edilen2K Takipçiler
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AY@seraphicsidr·
@Tsunalyst Might need to visit you for a hike when circumstances settle
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Nafi‘@Tsunalyst·
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Nafi‘@Tsunalyst·
Woke up at 4:45AM to hike for ten hours whilst climbing rocks, going through forests and streams, walking through all variations of terrain. The Adirondacks, New York.
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AY@seraphicsidr·
@Azhaar3818 This became super relevant today during a class, so I shared the quote. Jazakum Allah Khairan for sharing
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Azhaar@Azhaar3818·
Iqbal: “The mystic does not wish to return from the repose of "unitary experience"; and even when he does return, as he must, his return does not mean much for mankind at large. The prophet's return is creative. He returns to insert himself into the sweep of time….”
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Azhaar@Azhaar3818·
The dialogue between Aang and Yangchen near the end of season 3 has shades of Iqbalian thought. The difference between an air nomad and an Avatar is similar to Iqbal’s idea of the difference between a mystic and a Prophet.
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AY@seraphicsidr·
@boshsiz @SiriusXSimurgh @hashimiyy_ I've heard and read these explanations. I wonder if we can also simply say the title 'Khayrul Bariyah' is not restricted given the verse in Surah Bayyinah: إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَعَمِلُوا۟ ٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتِ أُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمْ خَيْرُ ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ ٧
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AY@seraphicsidr·
@justabint_ The course with Sh. Adham has been quite a treat as well
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🥀@justabint_·
genuinely couldn’t recommend this programme enough. Some of the finest shuyūkh I’ve had the privilege of studying with. I would highly encourage anyone serious about studying the deen to take a look and apply!
Al Sharaf Institute@SharafInstitute

ADMISSIONS NOW OPEN مَنْ يُرِدِ اللَّهُ بِهِ خَيْرًا يُفَقِّهْهُ فِي الدِّين Al-Nabī ﷺ said: Whosoever Allāh intends goodness for, He grants him understanding of the religion. (Al-Bukhārī)

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AY@seraphicsidr·
@muslimorthodoxy @KhalilAndani @BraunHB0 You can’t affirm robust spatial reality + real distinct parts + boundaries and then retreat to “it’s only semantic” when the ontological cost shows up. That’s having it both ways, and if you truly affirm both, it’s contradiction. /4
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AY@seraphicsidr·
@muslimorthodoxy @KhalilAndani In a prior engagement with @BraunHB0, you admitted *counterfactual* dependence while claiming it’s “merely semantic” b/c the parts and whole are “ontologically symmetrical.” Evasion. /3
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Khalil Andani, PhD
Khalil Andani, PhD@KhalilAndani·
I cannot blame you @muslimorthodoxy for no longer responding; you dig yourself deeper into incoherence with every response thus far. Now then, as a courtesy to everyone following this exchange, I will respond to your rather disorganized diatribe of a word salad: 1. You asked: "Why is it metaphysically incoherent for that “arbitrary limit” to be brute? How does that entail being “modally contingent”? Answer: It is logically possible for God's essence to have more or less than 3 dimensions since denying His 3-dimensionality is not a contradiction. It is logically possible for the top-down size or length of your God's essence to be any finite number N. This means that both of these limits on God's essence are contingent - they could be another way. That is modal contingency. As Dr. Rassmussen @worldviewdesign writes: "We can use this general reasoning to form an argument against positing arbitrary limits, such as in size, shape, powers, or in any other attribute that comes in various degrees" ("The Argument from Contingency", joshualrasmussen.com/articles/the-a…) These two contingent features [dimension and size] of your God 's essence require something outside of God's essence to set their values because they are arbitrary limits that could have been otherwise with different values. You cannot merely assert that these contingent limits of your deity are uncaused. That makes it a brute contingency. The atheist can easily take any feature of the Cosmos and assert them as uncaused and call it a day. 2. You Must Demonstrate the Necessity of God's Size and Limits: Later in your reply, you assert God's 3D-ness and His finite height as "brute necessities" not contingencies. Okay, then prove it to us! Notwithstanding that necessities are never brute - they are either necessitated by other necessities or they are necessary in themselves - you now allege that God's finite dimensions and size are modally necessary, not contingent. The burden of proof is upon you to logically demonstrate that God is necessarily 3D and necessarily has a limited height - what is your logical argument for these features of God being necessary? 3. Absolute Divine Simplicity lacks any limits requiring an external specifier: God in the belief of all other Muslims (Sunnis, Twelvers, Zaydis, Ismailis, Sufis) does not require any external simplifier because God is absolutely simple in Himself - meaning God has no external or internal boundaries - unlike your spatially limited deity who is internally and externally bounded. Since our God has no boundaries or hudud like your deity, there is no requirement to posit an external entity to cause God to be simple or non-complex. 4. Aseity is incompatible with proper parts Your inane comment about aseity really exposes how much of an amateur you are at this. Aseity means that God is not dependent upon anything distinct from Himself. You are smuggling in the adjective "external", but even this will not help you here. First, even the modern day shaykh al-Islam of you and your gang of Analytic Taymis, Ryan Mullins (who abhors ADS), says that aseity means that God is not dependent on anything else including non-casual grounding relations. Even if we start from your definition that God is not caused by anything "external" to Himself, Mullins concludes that an a se God must be ungrounded and independent of all else: "Any being that has its existence grounded in another will not be a se. Hence, aseity implies not having a ground for one’s existence" (Mullins 2023; see attached). William Hasker, who replied to Mullins 2023 article says the same thing about aseity: "A being which is a se should be one which does not at all depend for its existence on anything other than itself" (Hasker 2023, 64) Now, your conception of God is one in which God is constituted by proper parts that are spatially and ontologically distinct from God Himself and from each other. This plainly means that your God's existence and essence are grounded by these proper parts, each of which has its own existence and essence. Since you already deny ADS, you admit that each proper part is numerically distinct from God and "lesser" than the whole (God). In your theology, God's attributes are concrete spatial particulars not abstracta or immaterial attributes. For you, God's Feet, Hands, Face, Fingers, Eyes, Shin, etc. all occupy different spatial positions and extensions in relation to one another and they each have a spatial extent that is lesser than God's overall spatial extent. And this further leads to the fact that each proper part of your God has an arbitrarily contingent spatial extension as well. That is yet another brute contingency you need to explain. Since your God is a "whole" comprised of spatially distinct proper parts, the total top-down size of your God is literally the sum of the top-down sizes of each of His Proper Parts (His Hands/Face/Feet/Fingers). Mathematically, this means the total magnitude of your God is directly dependent upon the aggregation of the magnitudes of each of His Proper Parts and each Part contributes its own specific size to the total size of your God's top-down magnitude. This is no different than the total weight of my iPhone being the total weight if its internal parts. This may not be "casual" dependence but this is certainly a grounding dependence, which is ontological dependence. This is equivalent to saying a 6 meter length wall is dependent upon the aggregation the 6 one meter length bricks that comprise that wall. Nobody would dispute that the wall is dependent upon the aggregation of those bricks. To put this differently, the existence and aggregation of God's parts are the necessary and sufficient condition for God's Existence; but God is not the necessary and sufficient condition for the existence of each proper part. Your God exists only because His proper parts exist. The existence of your God presupposes and requires the existence and aggregation of God's Proper Parts. Therefore, the parts of your God have ontic and explanatory priority over God himself. This formulation does not apply in the reverse -- the existence of each proper part does not presuppose or require the existence of a whole or aggregate. This proves there is a one-way dependency of God upon His proper parts and thus, your God is not a se. Again, if you deny this and opt to change the dependence relation to say that God's parts depend upon God, then these are not really parts, they are creations and God Himself remains simple and independent. Alternatively, you can copy the even worse solution of Islamic Apex (Anas) and say that God and His proper parts exist in a two-way ontological dependence relations - which is viciously circular and denies aseity to both. As Hasker says, "A being which is a se should be one which does not at all depend for its existence on anything other than itself; if the being on which it depends is itself dependent on the original being, that fact does not cancel out the dependence of the first on the second" (Hasker 2024, 63-64). 5. Creation necessarily proceeding from God does not negate God's aseity You have tried to assert that, in my theology, God must be dependent on His creation because God creates necessarily. This claim simply does not logically follow and is quite unserious. I already refuted this idiotic claim in my 2022 publication on modal collapse (a). Not only that, even your shaykh Ryan Mullins admitted in his 2023 article that creation being necessitated by God does NOT negate God's aseity: "On panentheism, God always and necessarily exists with a created and causally dependent cosmos. Yet I find it doubtful that this somehow entails that God is not a se because God’s existence is not dependent upon nor derived from the created universe" (Mullins 2023, 54)
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The Orthodox Muslim@muslimorthodoxy

This is THE LAST reply I send to you, you are not responding to anything you are welcome to join my panel. Mr. “Physical separability is a biological defense to a metaphysical problem, and this isn’t AI but rather my sophisticated rhetoric”, has (kinda?) responded. First off, I DO NOT HOLD to God being a 3D object, however, I do believe that it’s metaphysically coherent to commit to that yet simultaneously attribute it with aseity. Your argument in (1) hasn’t provided a defeater, why? Because as you said here; “This already is a problem because a 3D deity is arbitrarily limited in having 3 dimensions as to any other number. Therefore, your deity is modally contingent in His dimensionality. Furthermore, there must be an external cause or specifier that makes your deity 3 dimension as opposed to another number.”, you made two assumptions, and for the third time, PLEASE justify them! Why is it metaphysically incoherent for that “arbitrary limit” to be brute? How does that entail being “modally contingent”? It’s metaphysically coherent to assume that there exists x such that x is 3D, exists without a cause, and it’s a brute necessity, that “why” it’s the case is therefore brute. What’s the METAPHYSICAL problem here? Those aren’t even related. Also, another point, why “must there be an external specifier”? Why? What motivates that? Why can’t I say that for every object x, if x is simple, x needs an external simplifier? Are you arguing for epistemic inconsistency or metaphysical incoherency? Do you even know the difference, or did “biological defense” reading not suffice? If it’s epistemic inconsistency, then ontological dependency nor modal contingency are logically entailed. Do better. What’s funnier is that in (2), you basically make the same argument in a different way; “it is logically possible for that number to be different - thereby making His extent and boundaries an arbitrarily limit and rendering your God modally contingent. Again, there must be an external specifier for your God's finite spatial extent on the up-down axis.” First, logical possibility doesn’t entail metaphysical possibility. This is basic stuff dude. It’s demonstrably formally consistent that your “exists and not exists” outdated conception of God to not exist. Is that a serious defeater? No. Metaphysical possibility is motivated by commitments far beyond just mere formal consistency. Also again, “external specifier” and “arbitrary limits” are non-sequiturs as you haven’t demonstrated that they logically entail that, when I told you that such “issues” can be resolved by simply saying that such object is a brute necessity, and brute necessity isn’t ad-hoc because that’s what aseity is. Read up man. Third, speaking of aseity, you don’t even know what it means, it’s actually you who’s as clueless as a social Trinitarian. Aseity means there is x such that x obtains in all metaphysically possible worlds AND x lacks any external metaphysical explanation. In your ancient wizard of oz theology terms, aseity means something exists without a cause and always exists. That’s the mainstream definition within contemporary philosophy of religion. I told you, on the issue of composition, you low-tier, within my last tweet, which I told to not run away from and you did exactly that, to do three things, in order for the argument to follow; 1. Flesh out what ontic-priority is, 2. demonstrate why we ought to commit to that hermeneutic, and 3. prove how an object bearing properties necessarily entails ontological priority relations. Don’t run again and again from this. How is causal dependency even entailed? Is God under your view thereby causally dependent because of necessitarianism, really? Do you see how pathetic and self-defeating your argument is? I will reply to (4) of your tweet later under this post.

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Maas@BraunHB0·
@muslimorthodoxy @KhalilAndani Your argument is basically: "Since you admit something can be logically possible but metaphysically impossible, I can just claim that a different size for God is metaphysically impossible, and my position is coherent."
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AY@seraphicsidr·
@Ibnkhaldun6 It was published by Dar Al Minhaj and prepared in cooperation with Al-Azhar University They also detail the review of 20 manuscripts in its production
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AY@seraphicsidr·
@Nero What do you think about laity reading kutb al sittah?
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MILO@Nero·
The Bible should not be read by the laity and never in the vernacular
Wes Huff@WesleyLHuff

John Wycliffe is one of my heroes. His passion, conviction, and desire to get the Word of God into the hands of the people. This week I was able to look at our earliest surviving copy of Wycliffe’s English Bible. The Wycliffe Bible was produced in the late 1300s, roughly 1382–1395, making it the first complete English rendering of the Bible, over 200 years before the King James Version of 1611. If you look closely you’ll notice it’s handwritten, not printed. Every copy had to be produced by scribes. This was before printing arrived in England, so owning a Wycliffe Bible meant owning a massive, labor-intensive manuscript. It became a medieval bestseller. More than 250 Wycliffite Bible manuscripts survive, which is extraordinary for a banned or controversial medieval English text. Only about 20 of those are complete Bibles.The copy you see me looking at in this picture — one of two I was able to take a look at — includes Genesis to Isaiah. The other one was a Wycliffe New Testament from 1390. It was risky after 1408–1409 to produce and own one of these. The Archbishop of Canterbury at the time, Thomas Arundel, restricted unauthorized new Scripture translations and public reading of Wycliffe-associated texts. So later possession or use of these copies could become religiously dangerous, especially if linked with the Wycliffe followers, known as Lollards. Also, take a look at the last image, a calendar at the front of the second smaller Wycliffe Bible we looked at, from 1390. At the bottoms of the page the scribe has written: “Anno Domini 1348, in festo Sancti Michaelis Magni, evenit prima pestilentia Londoni” — “In the year of our Lord 1348, on the feast of St. Michael the Great, the first plague occurred in London.”

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AY@seraphicsidr·
@boshsiz @muslimorthodoxy My point was simply that by defending an essence 'made of inseparable "parts"' and granting a '3D giant body,' he is conceding a model of multiple, distinct spatial components configured within a geometric limit, both of which are simply due to brute fact. /2
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AY@seraphicsidr·
@boshsiz @muslimorthodoxy I'm sorry, I made a big mistake. I misread you and responded too quickly. I didn't catch that you wrote entities, and I repeated 'entities' in my response while meaning components. I did not represent him fairly there. /1
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Hugh Djibouti
Hugh Djibouti@boshsiz·
@seraphicsidr @muslimorthodoxy I didn't see where he admitted belief that the spatial parts he believes in for God are distinct entities, but if he does that would just seem to be admission of polytheism
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AY@seraphicsidr·
@boshsiz @muslimorthodoxy I appreciate your feedback and good manners. Please feel free to give more.
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AY@seraphicsidr·
@boshsiz @muslimorthodoxy I feel there might be missing context. Did you see my replies here? x.com/seraphicsidr/s… Additionally I think this interlocutor does believe in multiple, distinct entities since he defended an essence made of inseparable parts and granted a 3D body is not problematic.
AY@seraphicsidr

@muslimorthodoxy Brother, please reconsider the structural logic of what you just wrote. Your argument is that because the universe is composed of parts that could have been otherwise, the whole is contingent and needs a Creator to specify its limits. /1

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AY@seraphicsidr·
So many blunders here but that he allows for some "brute facts" is devastating. Completely throws theism under the bus. Unfortunately, it is tribalism and a popularity contest though.
The Orthodox Muslim@muslimorthodoxy

Dr. Khalil, how do you have a PHD yet you still argue composition like a 2020 discordian phil bro? You haven’t justified your conclusions, you said all that is made of inseparable parts depends on its parts to exist, that’s just another way of saying Allah is self-dependant because he depends on nothing external to himself! Thanks for refuting yourself. You didn’t give an argument, you didn’t show an inference rule, you just asserted a conclusion. You said that my God must be 3D, without giving the argument! You just asserted it again! lol. Let’s grant for argument sake that God is 3D, a giant body above heavens (for arguments sake so don’t twist my words) you STILL wouldn’t be able to show a metaphysical problem with that other than than crying “TAJSIM” you and your classical theistic buddies. Now regarding the “Hadd”, you posited that there must be a Mukhasis 😭😭 this does not follow! The Hadd is a relation that arises in respect to God creating! That is that God is completely distinguished from creates and not infinitely extending like you believe. We also allow for brute facts, no issue there. It’s funny how you say our position undermines Asiety when you believe God’s Asiety is dependant upon creation. Answer this question directly, Can God Exist As Self Sufficient Without Creation ? Watch how you blunder

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