Sterling

Which is it?

@jortago128 @Leondero @swamthetiber25 I’m was just curious is there was such a thing as an idol relic according to the Orthodox or Catholic Church.

@simper_logia @Leondero @swamthetiber25 Brother, relic has one definition: "A relic is a surviving artifact, custom, or physical remnant from the past." It doesnt change whether used by Christians, Muslims, Jews, or Atheists. Its not a trick or a trap, no matter how much you would like for it to be.

When you do read your Bible, you’ll be able to point out all the places relics are mentioned. Relics in scripture: Old Testament 2 Kings 13:20–21: A dead man comes back to life when he touches the bones of Elisha. 2 Kings 2:13–14: Elisha uses Elijah’s mantle to part the Jordan River. Exodus 7:9–12: Aaron’s staff turns into a serpent before Pharaoh. Numbers 17:1–10: Aaron’s rod buds, blossoms, and produces almonds as a sign from God. Exodus 30:22–29: Holy oil and sacred objects are set apart for God’s work. Exodus 25:10–22: The Ark of the Covenant is treated as holy, holding sacred items like the tablets of the Law, manna, and Aaron’s rod. New Testament Matthew 9:20–22: A woman is healed just by touching the hem of Jesus’ garment. Mark 5:25–29: Again, touching Jesus’ clothing brings healing. Mark 6:56: People touch even the fringe of Jesus’ cloak, and everyone who does is healed. Acts 5:15: People bring the sick into the streets so that Peter’s shadow might fall on them and heal them. Acts 19:11–12: Handkerchiefs and aprons that touched Paul are used to heal the sick and drive out evil spirits.

@laoakai @_OKJ__ Your right we do need the spirt to understand spiritual things. We know we have him if we have the fruit of the spirit. Just because something is complex and hard to understand does not mean it’s a mess. String theory looks like a mess to me because I’m not a physicist.

@simper_logia @_OKJ__ 5) We supposedly need the Holy Spirit for correct interpretation but why make it so complicated? We have no way of knowing if we have him, because even the devil can appear as an angel and deceive us. It just seems like a big mess.

Yesterday I posted a fictional dialogue that culminated in a dilemma for Christianity. Ironically, most of the Christian responses only convinced me that the argument is even stronger and more difficult to escape than I originally thought. In simple terms, the dilemma is this….either people who never heard of Jesus, Christianity, or the Gospel can still make Heaven, or they are condemned to Hell purely because of ignorance of something they never had access to or heard about. Think about the billions of people throughout history who never even had the opportunity to hear of Christianity before and AFTER Jesus …Native Americans before European contact, isolated tribes in the Amazon or Sentinel Island, ancient Chinese dynasties, precolonial Africans, Indigenous Australians…..entire civilizations that lived and died before the Gospel ever reached them. Even today, there are still remote groups all over the world who have never encountered Christianity or the gospel. If such people can still be saved without knowledge of Jesus or the Gospel, then Christianity as religion and Christian evangelism becomes irrelevant and unecessary for salvation BY DEFINITION. At that point, salvation depends on sincerity, morality, conscience, or how one lives ….not on accepting Christ, believing the Gospel, or even knowing Christanity exists. Gladly, almost every Christian who responded rejected the idea that these people automatically go to Hell. Most instead argued that God judges them “by the light they had,” “by their hearts,” or “by how they lived.” But that only strengthens the conclusion that Christianity is unnecessary for salvation. Other Christians appealed to verses about Jesus descending to preach to the dead. But this does not solve the dilemma either. If people can accept salvation after death without ever hearing the Gospel in their lifetime, then earthly evangelism and preaching of the gospel becomes unnecessary…also this explanation only counts for people who were already dead at the time of Jesus.. not the hundreds of millions that never encountered the gospel after his alleged resurrection and ascension. Worse, it raises another problem…..many people would actually be in a BETTER position never hearing Christianity at all, since exposure to competing doctrines, denominations, fear based preaching, or disbelief could supposedly place them at greater risk…regardless of how they lived their lives. A risk they wouldn’t have had if they just lived their lives. Some Christians then retreat to the usual “Gods ways are mysterious,” but mystery is not a solution to a contradiction . The dilemma still stands. If ignorance of Christianity can still lead to salvation, Christianity is not necessary for salvation. If ignorance condemns people eternally for circumstances beyond their control, thenthe Christian soteriological system is deeply unjust. Have a beautiful week!

@laoakai @_OKJ__ Yes Jesus talked in parables. He said why he did that. “Because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.” And then: “For this people’s heart has grown dull…”

@simper_logia @_OKJ__ 4) Why are there errors in the Bible at all? Doesn't that open Pandora's box and we have to question everything? Why did Jesus say he talks in parables and we still take verses literally?

@laoakai @_OKJ__ God uses the foolish Things of the world to confound the wise. If your too prideful to trust god he will likely just let you stay like that. Your gish galloping polemics. Did you ever consider yourself to be a Christian? You seem like a moderately militant agnostic right now.

@deron_ice47036 @laoakai @_OKJ__ Blasphemous to say we know god from the Bible? That’s a very odd statement. Who’s right quantum gravity vs string theory. There’s disagreement. I guess that means we can’t know 2+2=4. That’s the level of logic to say arguments about sola fide mean we know nothing about god.

@laoakai @simper_logia @_OKJ__ Amen and Amen 🙏

@TakedownMRAs @karlykingsley Do I really need a screenshot something you could just scroll up to see.Quote “ the rights of men do not change when they cross state lines…” end quote

@simper_logia @karlykingsley Her post is about which of men's rights and men's rights only change by state

🎯

@laoakai @_OKJ__ We do know God’s character he revealed it to us in the Bible.

@simper_logia @_OKJ__ 1) If someone hits you in the face, you would pretty quickly determine that not being hit was the better option, because logically as a sane human being you don't like the pain. If we take the golden rule we can logically determine what is the better outcome for the most.

@laoakai @_OKJ__ There are people who like pain that might be better to them. I agree The golden rule is good. That’s because it corresponds with God’s character. Without God as the standard of good, we can’t say anything is better or worse.

@jortago128 @Leondero @swamthetiber25 Just trying to clarify what a relic was. So an idol possessed by a saint would be considered a relic. Just not a venerated relic.

@simper_logia @Leondero @swamthetiber25 Its by definition a relic. But if it was used for sacrilegious purposes, it wouldnt be a venerated relic. Not all relics are venerated. Thats like asking if the coats Saul held while watching other Jews stoning Christians would be considered a relic. What is your point?

@jortago128 @swamthetiber25 Gideon from the Old Testament. He had a golden Ephod. If it’s still exists, that would be a relic if he’s a saint.

@simper_logia @swamthetiber25 Who is Gideon then? Why are you asking?

@jortago128 @Leondero @swamthetiber25 So if Gideon was a saint. Then his golden Ephod would be a relic. Presuming it still exists somewhere.

@Leondero @simper_logia @swamthetiber25 Why do you call a question lame? Gideon of the OT is a recognized saint. I dont understand why the question was asked. What would make one think an object related to him, say, his sword for instance, "would not count"?

@TakedownMRAs @karlykingsley I never said it was just men. The op was about why does crossing state lines not take away men’s rights. It does.

@simper_logia @karlykingsley Gun laws apply to everyone, not just men

At what point does calling God “evil” require belief in objective good and evil? Genuine question.

@laoakai @_OKJ__ You keep saying things are better or worse. If you don’t know what “good” is. It is logically impossible to say something is better or worse. your feet are planted firmly mid air, while you mock the mountains for being unstable.

@simper_logia @_OKJ__ 2) And now extrapolate into the future. It will only get better. It will get as good as AI being able to predict crimes before they happen and then we have to wrestle with what to do with that information and how to deal with it.

@laoakai @_OKJ__ You ask if why God can’t think of something better. But if you don’t know what the standard of good is how can you claim there’s something better? You keep appealing to a standard of good that you deny exists..

@simper_logia @_OKJ__ 2) There are thousands of stupid laws that makes no sense and people always find loopholes. Why do you hold this deeply flawed low consciousness level system as gold standard to explain your god? Is your god that small that he has no capability to think of something better?

@laoakai @_OKJ__ God never commanded to kill and not kill. That’s nonsense. He commanded, don’t murder. And in some cases, he commanded specific killings. ( not murders) the fact you don’t understand the commandment is “thou shall not murder” indicates you never really studied about it.

@simper_logia @_OKJ__ That does not work. In the bible he commanded us to kill and not to kill and many other moronic rules like not to eat shrimp or kill people for working on Sabbath and women to shut up. Obviously it is highly debatable and interpret able what to do and what not to do.

@laoakai @_OKJ__ Every nation and religion in history of the world had slaves. One religion outlawed it. Somehow the religion that outlawed it is guilty and the ones who didn’t outlaw it get off the hook.

@simper_logia @_OKJ__ Yes, but they fought against other 'Christians' who defended slavery using the bible.

@laoakai @_OKJ__ How do you not understand the laws in the Bible? Shal not murder, shall not be false witness, not commit adultery. God’s moral laws are pretty straightforward. besides understanding a law is not necessary for being held accountable to the law.

@simper_logia @_OKJ__ You still don't understand me. I don't claim that. I never did. I claim, that I have no possibility in following what is right and just, without knowing and understanding a law first. And that's where the bible fails. It has no answer but the golden rule, which is not unique.

@laoakai @_OKJ__ Of course our justice system is relevant. You claim. If I don’t why why a law is right then that’s injustice. When literally every justice system ever made operates that way. Where is this perfect justice system you are referring to?

@simper_logia @_OKJ__ 1) You keep bringing up this analogy and it really doesn’t help your point. Our justice system is deeply flawed in many ways. There are hundreds of thousands of innocent people in prison or being fined and thousands of guilty people running free.

@laoakai @_OKJ__ Actually Christians got rid of slavery. Willam wilberforce (British) and Abraham Lincoln (USA) Slavery was ubiquitous in the world before Christian’s outlawed it.

@simper_logia @_OKJ__ 3) Trains and Telegram accelerated the abolishment of slavery during the American revolution. Guess what the internet and social media will do? If you don’t want to follow the bible to ‘test everything’ I can’t help you.