hannah anderson

Looks like we're going to have some new folks around here. Here's what you can expect: 1) general disapproval of modernity 2) endearing vignettes of bickering w/ my 17yo son about Napoleon 3) love of Appalachia 4) deeply protective of working class 5) probably too ecumenical

Sarah Bowman Iris Garden

24th May is the feast of Pentecost. München, Bayerische Staatsbibliothek, BSB Clm 15903; Lectionary of St. Erentrud in Salzburg; 11th/12th century; p.131 @bsb_muenchen

@MusingsOnChrist @BentheButcher80 Yes 😔

@sometimesalight @BentheButcher80 Even worse, they did not merely turn the imago Dei into machina. They also turned the eternal God himself into a machine, whose internal relationships are dominated by authority and submission. They even have the gall to call their monstrosities of God and humanity “beautiful.”

The framing of SBC debate re: women & title of pastor is so ironic to me b/c it's not traditional or conservative by any historical metric to define a vocation by "function." That's a modern, techno-cosmology in which we're all just cogs in institutional & social machinery.

@MusingsOnChrist @BentheButcher80 And the pastor is reduced to a tool as well which makes the amendment akin to a CAD model 😂

@MusingsOnChrist @BentheButcher80 We’re no longer living beings co-forming each other & creating the loving relationships from which all of life emerges & consists. We’re all just cogs in a great machine only coming near each other insofar as our gears must connect to move the assembly line along.

@BentheButcher80 Also to be clear, ESS is heretical in part b/c of novel & modern formulations around work/action that redefine the persons of the godhead based on function rather than a distinctiveness of relationship based in personhood.

@BentheButcher80 This really helps explain why folks are struggling to see the significance of the underlying categories—a couple decades of teaching Trinitarian relationships as functions makes defining pastoral office by function instead of ordination seem completely normal.

@JB_Durham80 If every man is a pastor, then no one is.

"Pastor" in the greek is literally "Shepherd." So, anytime men exercise leadership, be it parachurch, or oversight of their own families (in a sense) they are functioning as shepherds. It's a masculine function. This is why Paul roots this prohibition for women in the creational order. It's antithetical to nature and disorderly for women to pastor men.

Jason definitely the funniest name to find in ancient Greece

Root beer tastes like the way Abraham Lincoln looks and I can't explain that

@PaulNedelisky What they’re trying to do & what they’re actually doing are two different things. That’s the point of the original OP. And yes, I am all in favor of careful handling of the word & not simply imposing our own desires on it. Thanks for the chat

@sometimesalight I've gotta hit the hay. I think you understand what they're trying to do. What you really need to reckon with ISTM is whether you think God's word has ultimate authority on these matters.

In the same way, it was the modern techno-cosmology of ancient Athens that influenced Aristotle to define the essence of living things largely by their function.

@AlistairRobert7 Yeah, in Baptist polity, the congregation is the institution investing authority thru ordination. It’s like the students installing the professor & agreeing to let them grade them & then having the student body council enforce the honor code 😂

@sometimesalight I understand, but you are talking about institutional authority. Baptists - partly by virtue of their polity - are talking about institutional *and* soft authority and how they intersect. Presbyterians should take note. The PCA discussion about non-ordained deacons is similar.

@sometimesalight ...eldership of its meaning. Eldership/"Pastorship" must contain action and duties that can be defined as theirs. How to do that needs a more nuanced approach.

@PaulNedelisky That’s why the amendment is being put forward—it’s tightening up the definition of pastor by defining it by preaching. There’s already agreement that women aren’t to be pastors but there isn’t agreement about whether they can preach so the amendment wraps preaching into pastoring

@PaulNedelisky The BFM doesn’t prohibit women from preaching to men. It prohibits women pastors & leaves the specifics of the duties of “pastor” to local congregation.

@PaulNedelisky BFM doesn’t prohibit women preachers tho, only women pastors

@sometimesalight That doesn't appear to be correct. It forbids women doing what pastors/elders/overseers do. This is apparent both from the desire to avoid churches making end-runs around the prohibition on women preachers and the nature of the scriptural injunctions.

@AlistairRobert7 And yes, I track with you that a professor who doesn’t teach doesn’t seem to be exercising the vocation of a professor but the professorship isn’t defined by whether she does or not. She is made a professor by being installed as one & then given duties to perform.

@AlistairRobert7 Yes but ordination is what made you a ruling elder not your ruling (or teaching ). So the action can happen in a lot of ways—you can rule in a lot of ways but being chosen, tested, & approved is what makes your rule & teaching authoritative.